Employers Say This is Why You’re Not Getting Hired

It’s a continuing complaint: Employers who need skilled IT professionals say they can’t find people to fill their open jobs. But job seekers say it’s getting harder and harder to find a job. Why the disconnect?

Unemployed WorkerThe unemployment rate in technology seems to underscore the employers’ arguments that there’s more demand than supply. During the fourth quarter of 2013, the rate dropped to 3.5 percent from 3.9 percent, according to Dice’s Q4 Tech Trends Report. That compares to a national unemployment rate of 6.7 percent in December.

Skills in Demand

The biggest issue is that there are just not enough people with the “right” skills, says Rob Reeves, CEO and president of Redfish Technology, a recruitment firm specializing in IT. Given the shifting tides in technology and the peaks and valleys of specific needs, even those with significant experience can find it difficult to get a job, he notes. “You have a certain need for a certain position at a certain time,” he says. That dynamic can leave some professionals out in the cold.

The best advice for job seekers is to keep up on the shifts in IT. “There are breakthroughs and game changers,” observes Reeves, who points to examples like Java, security, the cloud, Big Data and mobile. Such skills are so coveted that supply and demand simply won’t match up at some point. Plus, employers want experience, but with new technologies there aren’t enough people available who’ve got it.

Another factor: There are some positions an organization simply can’t do without. According to Reeves, that’s just what’s happening with front-end developers, full stack developers and DevOps engineers.

Tough Specifications

Nowadays, employers are even more exacting in what they want. When their job descriptions reflect that, prospective employees get discouraged from even applying. “Our job descriptions are certainly specific in terms of the technical requirements that our clients are seeking,” says Sophia Navickas, vice president of the search firm Lynx. “However, within broad categories, accomplished engineers can be considered if they have some subset of the required skills and have the ability to demonstrate their ability to come up to speed quickly.”

As frustrating as this is for many, it’s good news for some. Those with the right skills are seeing bumps in salary, a trend that’s expected to continue. Average U.S. tech salaries rose to $87,811 in 2013 from $85,619 during 2012, according to the latest Dice Salary Survey. And employers are rewarding those with the needed experience and certifications at much higher rates.

“The tech market hasn’t slowed down,” says Reeves. “It’s simply changed. In January, we had one of the biggest months, and last year was good, too. We see companies with multiple openings. The pendulum is on the candidate’s side — if you have the right skills, of course.”

Comments

  1. BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

    Same old song, the employer has some one they want to hire and bring in on a H1B visa, so they taylor the job descrpition to some one they want to hire and import, who will work for less money, and 60 plus hours a week, who is younger, has less health issue’s and will be there indentured servant with the golden carrot being that they will help them get there green card, and citizenship. Many of my former co-worker’s 50 plus who have been unemployed more then have the skills, employers just want younger people who will work for less money. Cisco is always hiring, but they are also always laying off older workers who just can’t work 60 hours a week as they age, and still try a maintain a family life.

    • BY Cicuta says:

      You are 100+ % correct. I know for a fact that employers want a slave and pay a salary which amounts to $25 or so per hour, after putting in 60 hours of labor per week, and the only ones who are willing to do that are the H1B workers which are willing to come all the way from India. For a long time I have been mentioning that the time will come when companies won’t find anyone here in the USA with a technical background … and then what? Are they going to bring all of the India population here to the USA and start from zero? Imagine recent grads with no experience at all and universities not being able to teach all the applications available in industry (universities lag about 20 years behind industry); so, that translate to students not going for any technical curriculum. This country, thanks to the stupidity of company’s management, will become 100% dependent on H1B workers. Recruiters are also non-technical people which don’t even know what it takes to acquire a decent technical background and hence do not know what to advise to employers. I say this: Any H1B worker cannot match a USA worker in background and ability to communicate verbally; so, why companies don’t see the hand writing on the wall?

    • BY Wendy Raines says:

      You forgot they must have training in programs that don’t exist nor will be available until 2 years from now.

      • BY Don King says:

        Absolutely true! But, do you expect the H.R. (Human Retard) recruiter, or their lame client to understand that? They’re nothing but buzzword matchers and ass kissers. They have no idea of the field, science, technology, or even a basic understanding of math beyond basic arithmetic.

        Even when your the pioneer of a given technology, the dumb bastards ask “When was thee lust time you ‘used’ it?”. Used it? I wrote it! Their response – “What does that mean?”, or “Who was your ‘supervisor’?”. They’re so ignorant, for example, I’d be willing to bet if a company wanted a nuclear engineer for a nuclear power plant, they’d turn down Albert Einstein because his resume said “nuclear bomb”, and not “nuclear power plant”! No, not bet. I know they would.

        That’s how stupid they are.

        (See my related post)

        • BY Pigbitin Mad says:

          I’m no computer programmer, but this is all true. I think I am fairly proficient with technology as far as the average person goes but try telling that to these idiot cheerleaders on a job interview. They say they want proficiency with Microsoft products, but they do not define it.

          When I tell them I really do run rings around most people with Excel etc. they refuse to believe it because they think that the so called “Digital Natives” possess some super human ability with computers (and I am about 50). They actually know so little themselves that they think Tweeting, texting and posting on Facebook is some super mysterious skill that only the young can figure out. iIt took me three minutes to figure out all of the aforementioned without help from a youngster. And I mention that not because I think it makes me look smart, but because it really makes them look like idiots (and because I absolutely resented it when, on my first day at a job, a supervisor told me that if I needed help with the computer to ask the 20 year old who worked there two years longer than me and still didn’t know jack $#!T). My point is, I don’t need no stinkin’ remedial help learning how to use a mouse and google thank you.

          Anyway, what is even more infuriating is that I doubt the average worker really needs to operate at the IT level any more than the average driver needs to be a mechanic.

          I know from experience that the average young person is not particularly gifted because I literally had to show them how to do the simplest things. I mean, they don’t know how to insert a formula into Excel and I see them doing a lot of the same dumb things that “old” people do (like going to the File Menu to cut and paste).

          If they would ever make any attempt to actually prove the truth, I could fight this perception. The only thing to do would be to start an alternative economy that bypasses corporate BS and HR. The way I do that is to refuse to buy any of their products. Let them move overseas to save on taxes. Something will step into the vacuum very quickly.

          • BY Pigbitin Mad says:

            PS, excuse the typos in the last paragraph “They way I do it is to refuse to buy….”

    • BY NA NA says:

      And it is getting worse as the H1B visa holders are now in the hiring manager role. Poor America.

      • BY Juba says:

        I just graduated this past May in IT and finding an entry level job in my field of study has been EXTREMELY difficult. I.T. jobs are already competitive and with the H1B players in the mix, it gets even more competitive. God help those over 50 who are still seeking jobs in the Tech field right now. It’s better for them to start their own companies.

        • BY allah_speaking says:

          Contract work for those over 50… It is our only choice.

          • BY Chazzy says:

            Well, at least 90% of the jobs ARE contract jobs, but… then 90% of people in HR don’t realize this, so in their mind, someone with contracting experience is just a “job hopper, in no way mentally stable enough to be suitable for a full time position.”

            The biggest problem is in America’s HR departments, where laziness has been easy to get away with since the job market crashes.

        • BY Dav says:

          I’m in my 40′s pursuing my second career, and currently studying IT, and spending a lot of time and dollars hoping it will be worth my while. The problem I find with schools is they teach students so they will someday be a good worker, and dependent on a major corporation if they are lucky. Sounds good if there was such thing as job security. Schools should be more business oriented so when students graduate they can go at it alone thinking “I can do this myself” and start their own business. Why should I need to work for a company that doesn’t value me. Then you add Obamacare into the mix and companies can lay you off, and hire a contractor so they are below the number of employees. There needs to be workers rights. American workers rights.

      • BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

        Okay that last comment really pissed me off, ” And now H1B visa holders are Hiring Managers”. That completely shows an abuse of the H1B Tech visa program which is to find talent ( Genius ) and the best and brightest in other countries for positions in the USA, usually to develop, invent or solve very complex problems. You’re telling me that companies can’t find Americans to be managers, jobs that usually require very little technical experience, but an overall understanding of what they need to do, and business skills? I am sorry to say, but if you haven’t been to a homeless shelter and or stayed at one for a month or more, then you really don’t get it. If I was in India or China, would I be hired over an Indian or Chinese national. You are right, Americans are dumb, we are dumb to let our Corporate Executives, and or Politicians allow our jobs get outsourced in the first place and allow manufacturing to move to other countries, which is the main reason that our middle class has been decimated in the first place.

        • BY Legal Immigrant says:

          So that makes you and your law makers dumb. Stop bashing H1-B people.

          • BY sf95070 says:

            While a lot of these discussions end up sounding like we are blaming the H1B workers, I think most of us see them as victims as much as we are.

            The villains in this story are the greedy bastards that won’t pay what the job is worth and use the promise of life in the US to get indentured help through H1B’s.

          • BY SteveK says:

            >While a lot of these discussions end up sounding like we are blaming the H1B workers, I think most of us see them as victims as much as we are.

            They have their villains as well. Their corporations and the fly-by-night recruiting operations they have over here are doing very nicely at victimizing them and us. Why do you think you are getting all these strange contract offers from these operations. They need all the churn they can get to make the operation work.

            There used to be a US television manufacturer called Dumont that made a decent TV. But they operated on the assumption that each TV off the assembly line cost less than the previous one. That business model made them cut prices too severely, then costs rose, They started cutting corners and SONY arrived on the horizon with a different business model. SONY is still here and Dumont is gone. In fact, there isn’t any US manufacturer of televisions anymore.

            What we are seeing here with the H1B’s is a similar business model and it will eventually fail when the newer business model arrives. And like Dumont, the US IT will no longer be around.

          • BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

            I myself have been unemployed 5 years, and you’re right I am just not good enough, that’s why I can’t keep jobs, every thing I have done, is just never good enough. It’s not the H1B visa employees I am bashing, it’s the employers who keep lying / distorting and omitting the facts to the government, and our politicians who are abusing the H1B visa system. As I stated in a previous post, most workers on a H1B visa I have worked are much brighter then I, better educated, and were very hard workers, however there is no need to import a Systems Administrator, or a Manager because they can’t find qualified Americans in the USA, or state in their job description that they also have to be Developers, Programmers or Network Engineers so they can get the government to approve their quota request. Do you know what I tell the students I taught at San Jose City College in CIS? Don’t chose this career, you’ll end up homeless like me, and your job will either be outsourced over seas, or you’ll be replaced by a younger less experienced and low paid employee, who still has the stamina to work 60 plus hours a week with out over time pay. Choose a career that offers a pension, and that you can retire from in 30 years with out constantly being laid off.

        • BY YouSayYouWantaRevolution? says:

          I don’t know where you’re getting this stupid notion that immigrants are taking your job. If anything, they’re being abused. Immigrants are having it harder than anyone else. Sponsoring an immigrant requires MONEY, and employers don’t want to have to pay extra. The real reason jobs are still available is because employers are cheap assholes. They don’t want to train and they want people with experience to work entry level salaries.

          The only way to start a revolution is to revolt: start your own business.

          • BY TECHNU says:

            “The only way to start a revolution is to revolt: start your own business.” I agree wholeheartedly with that comment. You should have read the earlier comments, though. No one’s blaming the H1B Visa holders because they’re being taken advantage of with the promise of U.S. citizenship in exchange for indentured servitude.

      • First let me start by apologizing for duplicate postings, this Dice blog, will allow me to edit spelling and grammar errors, and I reposted thinking that the moderator would delete the first posting.

        Okay that last comment really pissed me off, ” And now H1B visa holders are Hiring Managers”. That completely shows an abuse of the H1B Tech visa program which is to find talent ( Genius ) and the best and brightest in other countries for positions in the USA, usually to develop, invent or solve very complex problems. You’re telling me that companies can’t find Americans to be managers, jobs that usually require very little technical experience, but an overall understanding of what they need to do, and business skills? I am sorry to say, but if you haven’t been to a homeless shelter and or stayed at one for a month or more, then you really don’t get it. If I was in India or China, would I be hired over an Indian or Chinese national. You are right, Americans are dumb, we are dumb to let our Corporate Executives, and or Politicians allow our jobs get outsourced in the first place and allow manufacturing to move to other countries, which is the main reason that our middle class has been decimated in the first place.

    • BY Looking for H1 sponsorship says:

      What you say is true, but not in all scenarios. I am qualified & experienced IT professional, who had to move to H4 visa from H1 status, as I had to take time off for Family (as you might be aware that it’s illegal to NOT WORK in H1 status). Now, when I want to get beck to job, I am finding it hard to get a job, not that I don’t have skill-set (by the way I have done my Masters from a reputed University in USA), but, because they do not want to do an H1 sponsorship. My spouse’s Green-card which was filed long back (7+ yrs), has not been approved because of DOL’s long back-log.
      For all these jobs, which I could not get, I see people having minimal experience or knowledge being hired for the reason – they are citizen, GC /EAD holders.

      • BY Unemployed Veteran says:

        For every one citizen/GC holder you see hired with a lack of experience, we see dozens of people hired with H-!B’s for the same reason. Look, maybe people are being too generalized in their criticisms. It is not really you against us against the other guys. It is class warfare here. In India, they used to have a caste system, and you could not move out of the caste you were born into. In some ways, that very obsolete system shaped the Indian worker into something that American companies desire – drones (the kind in the beehive or anthill not the ones Amazon wants to ship packages with). I have worked with many talented individuals from India, Pakistan, and China. I have also worked with people who have lied on their resumes, can’t speak English well, and definitely cannot write English, and that would be okay, if only they could show me some superior skill in writing code. I had to stick up for a young man from Africa and put my neck on the line because he was in danger of being cut from a project by someone who just wanted Pakistanis on his team. I urged him onward, just to keep proving that the person trying to cut him was wrong. He did exactly that. I know quality workers when I see them. I believe myself to be a quality worker, but only because I have a simple belief. If you have not got enough work to keep me busy for eight hours per day, five days per week, don’t ask me to work more than sixty hours per week. Likewise, if you have someone who cannot get their work done in forty hours, and you don’t ask me to help out when I tell you I am bored, don’t expect me to shed a tear when you are running late on product delivery due to mismanagement.

        I have been a proponent of reforming the whole H1 program for a long time. If I could have my way, you would have the H1 for five years and then be forced to take a citizenship test. If you failed, you would be able to take it again in six months. If you have not passed the citizenship test by the end of the sixth year, we send you home and you are ineligible for H1 visas. Now, this might seem severe to you, but what it means is that the H1 would automatically lead to citizenship. You would not be ‘punished’ any longer for not getting a citizenship. Another reform I would add is that a company would be required to provide proof that the job would be there for the entire six year period, and that they would ive the person time to seek their citizenship. If the company failed more than three times to provide an H1B holder with the time to take the citizenship exams, that employer would be barred from sponsoring any further H1 candidates for ten years. Further, if the company was accused of abusing its H1 candidates by forcing them to work longer hours than American workers or violating any labor laws, that company would be prohibited from using any H1 labor at all for twenty years. Finally, recruiting policies which favored the use of H1 labor over American citizens (or veterans like myself) would result in a one million dollar per incident fine, without exception. You see, the problem is not with the holders of the H1B, completely. It is not with the politicians completely. It is not even with the companies completely. There are companies out there who are really trying to do right by their H1 employees and their non-immigrant employees. The problem is the worthless gutter slime who abuse the system – on both sides – to get their way. By the way, my fiance is Chinese and came here on a standard visa, and is now authorized to work in the US and is working towards her green card. My great grandparents (maybe my great-great-grandparents) came to this country from Ireland on my father’s side of the family and they worked in far worse conditions than H1 holders do today, and were treated far worse. In fact, the only ones treated worse were the African slaves of the American Southeast, and Native Americans. My point is, there are other ways to become a citizen than to do the H1 route. Since you are on an H4 and are not allowed to work, try for citizenship. Then you won’t be blocked from those jobs you are crying foul about.

    • AS an IT-Tech. I have to say that the real reason why so many of us not filling jobs here in America is because, employer can pay ( due to the visa your speaking about ) a immigrant a lower wage than we American would except. The visa that these immigrants get from this country is only good if one finds a job. Which give that immigrant not many choicest in except the wage offer to them, which a lot of us American wouldn’t except.

      The truth is this: We American have lie to each other for so long, that we have started to believe in the lies we speak.

      Sgt. Steven Dotson, Jr. A.O.S. C.C.N.A.( COMPUTER SYSTEMS NETWORK ENGINEER )

    • BY MARIO says:

      100% CORRECT, THIS IS HAPPENING FOR DECADES, LONG LIVE H1B!

    • BY Rae says:

      Keep on blaming the H1Bs. I know tons of friends (including me), who are not foreign, and who are getting offers left and right. And it’s true that I’m young, but I don’t interview unless the company offers high 70k (I am a Java developer). So go ahead and keep on blaming the H1Bs if that makes you feel great.

      • BY Zarus says:

        And being young, your day will come, you will struggle, the day is coming that you may not be able to get a job. Right now you don’t care, it hasn’t affected you yet, it will. The sad truth is, until it affects you, you don’t care about others. Remember this comment and remember how devoid of compassion you were and how arrogant. There are many here far more qualified than you who are struggling, one day it will be you.

        • BY Rae says:

          I do care, I am a compassionate person by nature. My point is that times change so fast that we have to adapt. I just don’t understand why I keep getting calls from companies wanting to interview and people are saying there are none. I’m wondering if you guys are just in a dry region, unwilling to relocate. By the way, my comment about the 70k is not out of arrogance, I’m sharing how much developers can have it decent this day, which is why I’m not getting the complaints here. To some extent, this website is trying to bring tips it seems, but everyone is negatively responding.

          • BY Unca Alby says:

            The point is, RAE, after you hit 50, it doesn’t matter how fast you adapt. The “dirty little secret” is that very few IT companies want employees even over 40.

            I notice a trend among young people. They believe it’s a matter of getting older and no longer moving quickly enough with the market. I hear this over and over. They think they’re moving quickly in the market, but the truth is, they don’t have anything to move FROM. Everything they see today is NEW for them, it’s their first time.

            When you get older, you’ll find it’s the same crap with new marketing. Tweak the syntax, add frameworks, put in more layers, slap “NEW” on the box, and people believe it’s really new. Another list of “skillsets” to put in the Job Description Laundry List for the Keyword Rejection Software.

            When you hit 50, you recognize that the only thing “new” is the label on the box. But don’t ever dare say that if you want that job.

            You can be a lazy slob or a hard worker no matter what your age. You can pick up all the latest lingo and master all the latest tech no matter what your age. But it becomes very difficult to get a job once your age hits that “magic number”, regardless of how hard you work or how “savvy” you are with technology.

            That’s just the way it is.

            My advice to you is, invest your money now so you can retire at 45. When you’re 46, you’ll wish you did.

          • BY Don King says:

            Good advice. Good summary of the truth too. I would say take the buzzword matchers and marketing morons out of the loop, but you can’t. The clients are equally stupid and can’t relate to anything outside that. Most of the population will never understand what we do, or how vast our knowledge is, and has to be. In case you haven’t noticed, they (people outside of IT), with the exception of the other engineering disciplines, can only think in binary. They want to categorize you as the tree because they can’t see or understand you’re the forest.

      • BY TECHNU says:

        You should have read the earlier comments, though. No one’s blaming the H1B Visa holders because they’re being taken advantage of with the promise of U.S. citizenship in exchange for indentured servitude.

        • BY Rae says:

          Some of the earlier comments were blaming H1Bs, but some were not indeed. I do see your point.

    • BY Kay says:

      Amen! Welcome to the game

  2. BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

    Same old song, the employer has some one they want to hire and bring in on a H1B visa, so they taylor the job descrpition to some one they want to hire and import, who will work for less money, and 60 plus hours a week, who is younger, has less health issue’s and will be their indentured servant with the golden carrot being that they will help them get there green card, and citizenship. Many of my former co-worker’s 50 plus who have been unemployed more then have the skills, employers just want younger people who will work for less money. Cisco is always hiring, but they are also always laying off older workers who just can’t work 60 hours a week as they age, and still try and maintain a family life. Of course they always say that they just weren’t a good fit, or were in the bottom 10 percentile in their performance reviews to justify leaning out their team.

    • BY Kay says:

      Jose you know the game and I pray that more people will unite so we can do something about it. Divided we are already conquered and that’t a major part of the game.

      Anything that will divide us is being sold to the multitudes for the benefit of the 2% and while playing some groups more than others, they surely play us all. So glad to see that we know the game and if we know the game then, lets pray and ask God to show us what we can do about it. Note: Our Bible saids where there’s unity there is strength.

      • BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

        Kay, thank you for reading my comments, and for your reply. Employers that think this is just a game, and we are the pawns bother me. IT people are not rockstars, or sportplayers, we don’t get a million dollars a show or game that we can live off of until the next time we play. We are not just a cog that can be replaced easily and we are each unique. Life is also not a game, when you ruin some one’s reputation by lying about their skills or what they have accomplished to justify to the government why they were no longer needed, that just can’t be magically fixed, or forgotten. Honestly, IT just isn’t fun any more, it’s do more with less, and the last straw that broke the camels back, was many straws ago. I am tired of trying, they win I give up.

        God Bless,

        Jose F. Medeiros
        408-256-0649
        https://www.linkedin.com/in/josemedeiros

  3. BY Fred Bosick says:

    When IBM, the Eckert and Mauchly Corporation, and Sperry-Rand needed programmers in the late 40s/early 50s, did they complain that the workforce is unsuitable? No, they *trained* them! And they also trained for IT jobs that didn’t require programming. The populace had no clue that computers were going to be big.

    Today, everyone knows that computers are important, but no one knows the next big thing unless in very general terms like “Android” or “Big Data”, yet job seekers are supposed to keep up instantaneously? Worse, too many wanna be entrepreneurs are trying to be rockstars and drum up angel investment by inventing new names for the same old crap; Hadoop/ DB2, The Cloud/client-server, etc.

    Breakthroughs, by definition, are not expected and predictable. How do you shift when there’s no warning?

    And do editors really read articles before submission?

    “Plus, employers want experience, but with new technologies there aren’t enough people available who’ve got it.”

    First, WTF? And, 2nd, it’s only a tautology. What if the new tech is too similar to others, or otherwise pointless? Are we just to wait for the beneficent employer to decide it’s something worth using and come down from “The Cloud”s, with trumpets blaring, to bestow us a job just because we *guessed* correctly?

    • BY NA NA says:

      That generation took the training and money and left the subsequent generations out to dry.

      • BY Randolph Macon says:

        You are saying that yesterday’s twenty-somethings should have done what, exactly, for unborn generations to come? Are you suggesting that if they had turned down whatever training they got, there would have been more for you? And exactly how much do you yearn to be trained in COBOL?

        How stupid.

        Only weak-witted fools and fascists believes that bad generations cause historical problems. You are an imbecile.

        • BY YouSayYouWantaRevolution? says:

          Lmao, you don’t read much, do you? Baby Boomers did steal jobs from younger generations, that much can be proven.

          • BY johnny says:

            “Baby Boomers did steal jobs from younger generations, that much can be proven.”

            Huh? Baby boomers have the jobs they always had. So keeping a job is now stealing? I would ask what are you doing today to make things better for the next generation? My guess is nothing because you’re sulking about what the boomers “took” from you.

            The real problem, as stated earlier, is that corporations don’t want to train anymore. In fact, they’re perfectly willing to steal workers from companies that do train. That lack of investment is reflected in the attitude most workers have about their jobs.

          • BY Zarus says:

            There is not even any logic in what you stated. Let me get this straight, those who are American and from the “baby boomer” era, had no right to work? Yet foreigners have every right to invade a country that has millions of Americans unemployed and that is ok? You are a fool, there was a “baby boomer” era, yes, those who are not of that era outnumber us. Why? Most had children, more then 2, are you following this? There are more who are not baby boomers then who are. You are an idiot.

    • BY YouSayYouWantaRevolution? says:

      It’s the truth: the technology isn’t complicated and there are plenty with experience. It’s the employers, THEY’RE THE ONES who don’t want to train and that’s not an employees fault.

  4. BY SteveK says:

    This is a gambit that corporations have been using for over 30 years. It is the ever escalating skill set that allows them to use H1B’s. The current one that has started cropping up is multiple DB platform skills. They want a DBA to be fluent in Oracle, SQL Server and DB2.

    My favorite is one spec called for 36 months experience in SQL Server 2012 in August 2013. The rollout was March 2012, so you had to be working for a handful of companies to have the specified experience.

    It is the same ideological premise, that we US workers are lazy, unskilled and just can’t compete in the global market, not that corporations are cheap, greedy and unwilling to pay living wages if they can get away with it.

    • BY Pal says:

      t is the same ideological premise, that we US workers are lazy, unskilled and just can’t compete in the global market,
      ===
      In India, peoples are salary paid and trained. Once they gain knowledge, they come US for competition. How many employer give training in USA and pay salary for training.

    • BY MARIO says:

      HELL YEAH!
      PLUS THEY WANT SOMEBODY WITH A “HIGH SCHOOL” EDUCATION.
      NO WONDER CORPORATIONS ARE HACKED ALL OVER THE PLACE.
      ALL OUR TECHNOLOGY IS GOING OUTSIDE BORDERS.

    • BY Rae says:

      Why do you want company to pay to train you? The world has changed .The knowledge they are seeking is readily available. You can get some book in your library, install some software, and learn this craft yourself. So yes, companies are not paying to train people because they know it’s possible to learn it yourself, and it shows initiative.

      • BY Fred Bosick says:

        That’s all fine and well, but what do you put on your resume’? You can say, “I took 6 courses from Khan Academy/OpenMIT, etc.” and they’ll toss it aside same as if the pizza driver filled out an application. It doesn’t matter if you can pass a blackboard test. You won’t get an interview unless you have every alphabet soup jumble in the resume’. And lying can get you fired.

        The knowledge exists in the US citizen applicants. It’s that companies demand outrageous combination of skills just to say “no American Citizen is available”, and then put in an order for an H-1B visaholder.

        • BY WendyRaines says:

          So True. Fred. I have reworded my resume 7 times already and STILL I am asked to describe my job in a way that I have to disclose proprietary information so that the HR people feel that I am able to do the job. Well, I am not risking a lawsuit or prison time to get a job. I even had a consultant look at me crazy for explaining to her this very same thing. I guess they are oblivious to the massive amount of talent and profit wasted by not hiring AMERICAN.

        • BY Don King says:

          Yes, but that’s what the H1B’s do. I’ve seen it happen time and again. They’ll put every buzzword possible, and more. They lie through their teeth. They get hired and then hope like all hell that they can learn on the job quick enough so that nobody will notice they’re not as skilled as they were professed to be.

          If you took the courses, or independently studied, as in your hypothetical, you can put it on your resume. You might want to list it as “Continuing Education” and/or “Currently pursuing XXXX technologies”. Something vague, but true, and captures the essence of what is trying to be conveyed.

  5. BY Jack Smith says:

    more b/s from employers, who just want to hire H1B’s, so they cook up a purple squirrel job specs that no human Earth could live up to. Also, you have to deal with a lot of hiring managers whom either don’t know what they want, want genius for free, or want to make sure they don’t hire anyone threatening to them. And in the end as I said in the beginning, employers are just looking to keep the 2000′s cheap H1B party going on forever..don’t believe the lies, there are plenty of great American candidates out there, anything to the contrary is a lie

    • BY Carol Ann Hroch says:

      Agreed, its all about the bottom line. I have seen the shoddy work being done by some of these workers. Code is crap, they dont understand the requirements, they code it wrong, once , twice, three times. Where is the cost savings? Its awful. Dont beleive what anyone says that they cannot find skilled qualified workers in this Country there are plenty. They just dont want to pay us the salary we deserve in order to live in this Country. DISGUSTED! I’ve seen so many working 50+ hours and not get paid any overtime in fear of getting fired They are Contractors on an hourly wage pay scale not salaried. You get what you pay for and boy does it show with all the crap code being written. We have ORT’s with 57 open defects???? Rediculous is upper management that clueless??? Must be

      • BY Laid Off after 25 years AMERICAN Sr Level Tech says:

        Bottom Line – Upper management is not clueless they are Greedy. upper mgmt gets Rewarded for replacing american workers with contractor’s from their outsource vendor. mgmt does NOT care if the code is not good, mgmt blames the business unit for bad requirements. (knowing full well that is not the case)
        mgmt gets their bonus for reduction of american FTE and reaching the outsource goal.
        and YES mgmt & ceo positions are now being filled with individual’s for whom english is not their first language and WE are supposed to be patient and LEARN how to understand their accent and read their grammar lacking emails.
        and we get reprimanded for our poor communication skills, sometimes via emails full of bad grammar and typo’s.
        I KNOW why I cannot secure a job: I am American, I have 25 years experience, I learn new technologies quickly, I am very productive, I do not have an accent and I care to do a great job.

        • BY Stimpy says:

          I hear what you are saying. I got pushed out the door after 29 years. In my case they wanted to outsource what I do, and labeled my skills as “not a core competency”. Funny, now I am working as a contractor, doing work for this same company … and they are desperate for me to succeed in my tasks and are even willing to send me half way around the world to help solve problems. It’s all about age discrimination and that eff’d up ‘stacked ranking’ BS whereby they manipulate employee reviews to shove the oldsters out the door. Maybe I should tell them to ‘eff off. At least I have work.

  6. BY Legal immigrant says:

    And some H1-B workers are silently working…making their way up…in companies like Microsoft and taking CEO positions. I thought H1-B imported labor from India was cheap, bad coder and a 60 hour slogging machine………

    Could it be that every H1-B visa holder is not always so dumb…just like every American is not so bright.

    • BY Jose F. Medeiros says:

      No one is calling the workers brought in on H1B visa’s dumb. I myself am not a programmer, nor am I a genius, I merely implement & manage IT infrastructure servers, such as Microsoft Exchange with Active Sync, Windows Server and Clusters, Active Directory, Black Berry Enterprise servers, Citrix, Vmware ESX, Storage Area Networks. While I am not the best at what I do, I was fairly good at it. Unfortunately, when I first became an IT person in 1996, companies would assist you with education, and allow you to keep your skills current, When I was at Intel in 2006, my manager denied my education reimbursement request for Phoenix Universities so I could continue my education, and in my opinion it is the Employers own fault that U.S worker’s are falling behind on their skills and why younger college students are looking at their unemployed Alumni, and realizing that another career field may be a better choice where they won’t get laid odd every few years, and can retire with a pension. Now a days employers put too much on our plates making it difficult to continue our education while working. What companies are now doing is laying people off, including Indian and Chinese workers in the U.S.A, and expect them to use the time they have off to return back to school, and update their education, then re0invent themselves when they are ready to return to the work force. In other you get to sit on the bench.

    • BY Tom Murphy says:

      yeah, not all, just the vast, vast majority…you make a good point

    • BY NA NA says:

      who said that they were dumb?

    • BY Juba says:

      No one said they were dumb.

    • BY YouSayYouWantaRevolution? says:

      This might surprise you, but don’t you think those companies know what they’re doing when they hire someone and pay them below the national average for their field and work them overtime without pay? You’re not going anywhere except out the door at those big name companies. You’re just a clog in a machine that’s been running since Bill Gates struck rich 10 years ago.

    • BY Zarus says:

      Could it be that all Americans should be working before foreigners are allowed to work here?

      • BY WendyRaines says:

        Yes, zarus. That is precisely the point. If companies want to have/do business in America, hire the Americans first. Don’t write off an entire country for some BS cultural bias. If I were a global employer, I would hire the best I can from every country that I am in STARTING with the citizens of that country FIRST! Happy and loyal employees are what make a company and my profit margin grow not the other way round.

  7. BY TAR says:

    As someone who has been working in the IT industry as a recruiter for more than 12 years, I have to disagree with the above comments. I have sent recent US graduates to entry level positions and with very few exceptions, they simply can’t hit the bar in coding. I think it is disheartening because there is a huge disconnect between what is taught and what is actually needed. And to all the moaning about the “evil companies”, listen, they have a job that needs to be done — it isn’t their responsibility to train people. The people who show initiative find ways to make it — I have seen it. Not many people have Big Data experience, but those who do kept abreast of the trends and many started out by learning on their own — even creating their own projects so they could have something to show hiring managers.

    In terms of “slave wages”, I am going to disagree with that as well. What many people don’t realize is that the US Govt has laws about what people on an H1B can be paid — called “Prevailing Wage”. In my area those rates are exceptionally high. I have seen the prevailing wage “protect” a person right out of a job. The candidate would offer to go down in rate to meet the hiring manager’s budget, but I had to respond, “You CAN’T go down in rate — the law says for ‘X’ position you must be paid ‘X $ per hour’. It was frustrating, but I couldn’t submit that person even though they were willing to compromise.

    • BY ben says:

      Good luck with your indian workers.

      • BY SayWhat? says:

        The problem I have is with INDIAN RECRUITERS. I put my resume up on Dice and hordes of them came a-calling right away. It would have been good if they were calling for something I am qualified for or interested in. But no, they just search for a few words, got a hit on my resume, and all of a sudden think I’m an expert and qualified to do something that does not remotely resemble my job description. I’ve had to wade through so much emails just to get to legitimate ones. Don’t get me started on the the myriad of phone calls they make where I have no clue as to what they are saying since their accent is so thick. My experience with them has been absolutely negative. Native recruiters are just as clueless about matching technical jobs to candidates. Seems this is an international recruiting disease. At least the native recruiters don’t virtually harass me and they speak English…a valuable asset in a position that requires speaking to Americans, no? You wouldn’t think so by all the bad, thick accents from those Indian recruiters. Ugh.

        • BY reader17 says:

          Yep. Now I just delete those voicemails as soon as I hear the accent. I actually followed up with a couple of them that sounded promising, but didn’t get far.

          Recently, I was excited to get an interview arranged thru a recruiter … a large company that starts with ‘W’ and ends with ‘green’. The job description was typically long and all-encompassing. I could barely understand the IT manager with her thick accent. I quickly caught on that the job really was to babysit the offshore development team. If I couldn’t understand her, I can imagine the team meetings in the middle of the night. Not being able to speak Hindi might be the reason I didn’t get a follow-up.

        • BY Corbow says:

          Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I just got yet another call this morning from a thick-accented recruiter telling me he found my résumé on Dice and had a web design position open. I asked him to send the description via email, and when I received it, it was for a web developer position, NOT a designer position. None–I repeat, NONE–of the skills listed in the description are on my résumé.

          The American recruiters aren’t quite as clueless, usually; they just don’t know the difference between Java and JavaScript.

    • BY ben says:

      You say you have 12 years as a recruiter. Do you have any experience programming? If not, you sound like a real a-hole.

      Who are you to judge? Your job is to find people who have enough keywords on their resume. You can’t actually test people for their knowledge because you aren’t tech savvy yourself. The only thing you can do is give them a general phone screening to see if they’re a real person.

      Your job is to put buzzwords into a search engine, and forward the results to actual employers.

      • BY Jim Harris says:

        Well said Ben. Very well sad. While I see where “LEGAL IMMIGRANT” is coming from, I also agree with you. I think that recruiters often over simplify the process of finding a LEGITIMATELY QUALIFIED candidate.

        I have 7 years of experience in Data Warehousing and was told I could not have a position which I can certainly do because I don’t have any experience with a certain Business Intelligence software. That is a total lie, becuase I have learned how to work with this particular software over the course of my 3.5 years here and can do everything that position needs someone to do.

        Instead, a woman from India was hired. Her notebook says things like “learn SQL mother of all,” “Learn Excell” (yes with 2 l’s), “Google how to ask open ended question,” etc. I am not making these things up, I promise. I looked at this woman’s linked in profile and it shows 8 years of experience with this particular reporting tool. IT ALSO SAYS SHE KNOWS HOW TO RECOMMEND INDEXES ON A DATABASE! I promise that this woman does not know this skill. All of her endorsemnts include a few family members and a “Career development consultant.” Her degree is in marketing, and her prior two places of employment are family businesses – a single buy here pay here car dealership and a single quick lube oil change establishment. TELL ME that these places are using a multi-thousand dollar business intelligence software.

        I think one of the biggest issues is that people like “LEGAL IMMIGRANT” want to fill a position (to get paid) and others want to fill a position, even if they have NO CLUE how to do it, to get a great salary.

        I don’t blame EITHER party, but if you think this isn’t negatively impacting the tech industry, then you are either a fool or living on a different planet.

    • BY Tom Murphy says:

      As a rule, recruiter/”pimps” are very trustworthy, with everything they say. It’s understandable, how pimps are in love H1B, that’s where they get their biggest margins, the pimps.

    • BY Nightcrawler says:

      —-And to all the moaning about the “evil companies”, listen, they have a job that needs to be done — it isn’t their responsibility to train people.———-

      Um, actually, it IS the responsibility of an employer to train THEIR employees. That’s the way business works. That’s the way it has always worked. Even if you hire someone who performed the exact same job at a different company, they are trained to do things *that* company’s way. Why wouldn’t you want them to learn *your* company’s way?

      There’s also inherent danger in hiring someone who “already knows everything.” You could end up with an arrogant jackass who mouths off if you try to correct them, even on something small, because they…already know everything.

      It astounds me that a car dealership hired me and is willing to train me for 12 weeks to sell cars (even though I’d just come out of an MBA-level Professional Selling class), but an IT company won’t spend so much as 12 hours training a new graduate to do something that’s ostensibly much “harder.”

      Now that I’ve spent a month in a sales job, I can honestly say that I have no desire to work in IT at all, unless it’s as a Sales Engineer. Salespeople make far more money and work less than coders, and they cannot be replaced by offshore contractors or H-1B workers, simply because most H-1B’s don’t have the deep English proficiency needed to communicate with American customers. It would be like me trying to sell to Spanish-speaking customers.

    • BY SteveK says:

      Having interviewed a few hundred of these H1B’s, I daresay, that technical expertise or language skills were not their strong suit. You are saying dollar value is not part of the equation.

      What, pray tell, is the attraction of bringing someone from the other side of the world, who cannot speak the language, to the US, if it is not the cost? I know it is not for their skill.

      Inquiring minds want to know..

      • BY Honestly says:

        Stevek,

        I have a question for you. So if their ‘technical expertise is not their strong suit’ …why are you hiring them for? A piece of advice for you..when you have these H1B1 employees interview …arrange for FTF interview not even Skype interviews…cause they have someone to be interviewed for them…

        • BY SteveK says:

          I didn’t, usually after all the tech interviews in which we would reject them all, an H1B that we had never talked to, would show up – hired by someone higher up the totem pole. We would train them and hand hold them. They were supposedly hired to help, but usually doubled the work load, since we had to make work for them and correct their work, communications was always difficult.

          When we got one that was brought on as a specialist, they usually were good – one note, but good. The foot slogging troops were useless.

          Most of us here are trying not to be xenophobic, but the corporations are using H1B’s to break the back of IT workers. India has its agenda and our best interests are not a part of their goal.

    • BY Rob says:

      Tar, you are naive and incorrect. You are comparing apples and oranges when try to use recent college graduates to entry level skills in an industry that is way ahead of educational teaching and demanding.
      Here is the key statement: “You have a certain need for a certain position at a certain time,”
      Majority of IT has been turned into “contract work” requiring mobile worker (geographically) and when a company is done with their need, along with most 3rd party staffing, dump the worker.

      There are 3 ADDITIONAL reasons for the gap. Societal. Demographics. Unchecked Hiring Practices by Staffing Companies.
      Societal: U.S. culturally adapted citizens still want a city and place to call home with a home and majority not looking to live out of few suitcases.
      Demographics: There are an abundance of highly educated workers in other countries who are willing to leave their country for the opportunity to work in “a job”, and no one can blame them, however, they are indeed tied to a company or staffing company and may live 4 people in one 2 bd. apt. sleeping on the floor. (first hand knowledge). They are under paid for the job std. and std. of living.
      3rd Party Staffing: The JD are NOT even close to good. The “rate” is first, the skills and experience second. Companies will ONLY see candidates where agency can get their margin.
      There is no oversight on the fair practices of 3rd party staffing agencies. Recruiters like Tar use W-2 with no benefits, health care, saving plan and then claim to define “prevailing wage” is just self denial.
      The construction industry in CA, Arizona and Texas among other states saw the same thing with Latin America and Irish immigrants (illegal in many cases) undermine the wage base and quality of work.
      The people posting here may not say it correctly, but, there observations cannot be denied.

    • BY Fred Bosick says:

      “Prevailing Wage” is violated every day. I guarantee you’re not placing many candidates right now, no one is. Too many flaky “recruiters” chasing after the few real openings. Also, you have a logic failure in your story. If the prevailing wage was really preventing people from getting jobs, it would be affecting the H-1B candidates as well. But the yearly quota is full just days after applications are accepted.

      The government *does* have laws, but business has paid out a lot of money to skirt the requirements. Why do you think Zuckerberg and friends are making a high visibility push for “immigration reform”? Never mind the body shops(Wipro, Tata Consulting, etc.) being fined for visa violations. There’s big money in ripping off IT workers. I see it in my own job as a contractor at Ford.

      Are you moonlighting as a paid commenter to supplement your meager recruiting income?

    • BY Nutella says:

      Why do you only want rcent college grads? Why not use older experienced American coders who create the IT industry long before you or India ever got involved. It’s because you might have to pay them more, isn’t it? Age discrimination is ILLEGAL in the US.

    • BY Nutella says:

      We all know that there is NO enforcement of US immigration or wage laws. Companies do whatever they want and hire and pay whatever they want. The business lobby in the US sees to it there is no enforcement. We all know this.

      And if you keep flooding more workers in from other countries, wages automatically go DOWN due to excess supply and that then becomes the “prevailing wage” doesn’t it. So you only have to pay what the cheapest H-1B import is willing to work for and that is the “new normal”. Stop the lies.

    • BY Nutella says:

      I have worked in software for 20 years – creating 18 successful commercial software products – including software at Apple and PlayStation @ Sony. 15 years ago when the job robbers started invading they would ask me to train them. In fact, I was laid off from Adobe and then asked by managers to come “back to work for one week only to train your replacement”. IF FOREIGN WORKERS ARE SO SMART THEN WHY ARE AMERICANS TRAINING THEM?

      Stop the big biz lobby lies. Americans invented IT and just about everything else.

      Please name the great operating system from India anyone in USA uses.

      You can’t because no such OS exists!

    • BY Nutella says:

      77% Of IT Staff Say Their Outsourcers Invent Work For Profit

      http://www.darkreading.com/security-services/167801101/security/news/229500046/survey-finds-77-of-it-staff-say-their-outsourcers-invent-work-for-profit.html?utm_source=twitterfeed

      Why should we be surprised, we all know India, Inc. is not here to help America, but to grab our wealth.

    • BY Billy says:

      WRONG. A company should train a new, inexperienced coder how to code to the company standards. Learning to code is similar to working on an assembly line or any other position. It takes time to “get into the swing”.

      As has been pointed out, in years past, when companies needed I/T folks, they had apprenticeship programs and trained people in-house. IMO, the problem is the idiot MBAs who are too focused on short-term gains over long-term profitability and stability.

      Thank you for proving that recruiters are idiots.

    • BY sf95070 says:

      If this is truly an entry level position, I really doubt that any US or foreign graduate of a computer science program is unable to code in Java or other common languages. I also doubt that they would have difficulty learning more exotic languages like Ruby on Rails quickly as all these languages are pretty similar.

      If like many companies you expect an entry level person to understand the business needs or define architecture because you are too cheap to hire senior people, then you get what you deserve.

      Please spare me the BS about the lack of skilled people. Based on people I know right now who are unemployed or underemployed, I can fill any position in IT you can give me with a resource who can handle the job well, but not for $20/hr.

    • BY allah_speaking says:

      So the actual disconnect is between what is being taught and what is needed… You as a recruiter should be out informing the colleges and universities what you need…

    • BY YouSayYouWantaRevolution? says:

      “it isn’t their responsibility to train people…”

      Really? It’s not an employers responsibility to TRAIN their employees?

      I do question how you’ve been employed for 12 years. 12-15 years seems to be a number that a lot of people throw out there when they want someone to believe them, without question. But then again, you did say you were a recruiter. Recruiters are, by and large, the worst when it comes to knowing what a market demands. If you’re a recruiter, you would also know that real employers don’t want to deal with agencies, as they tend to be the worst at placing people and hiring qualified employees, and the only companies who rely on recruiters tend to be terrible companies that have exhausted local talent. No one knows better than the person that will be directly working with the candidate who will be the best fit for the job.

    • BY steve says:

      “it isn’t their responsibility to train people. The people who show initiative find ways to make it ”

      The IT recruiter admits they don’t train? Where’s the PR Department to censor that person? The status quot story is that companies train well, so your HR peers might ostracize you for saying otherwise here. That’s a way you can end up out of a job yourself you know.

      Now assume your right and ask what a world looks like when employees have to train themselves at their own expense on their own time for work they would never do on their own and only undertake for the service of their employer and pay. How much accurate information can a single person working full time with limited resources gather to use in the economic marketplace? What are the training costs and risks of obsolete training or inappropriate training and how can one person research private company needs to even evaluate good vs bad training? What if the company IT needs change suddenly and all the employee investment in training is lost?

      These are questions the business guru’s and managers don’t like to address and label “the employees problem and not the business problem” I think the situation business seeks is simply to pass the risk of misplaced learning and the cost of learning onto the employee so the business can make more money. Somewhere some management guru started this idea that individual employees had the resource and ability to choose and pay for training needed by employers and they could do it better then employers and it built momentum like a typical business fantasy.

    • BY Chug says:

      “It isn’t their responsibility to train people”? Yes, it absolutely is, if there are specific and/or proprietary programs the company wants them to be able to use. There are so MANY different languages and programs and processes out there that it would be impossible for universities to cover even a tenth of them. A factory doesn’t expect workers to come on board already knowing how to work all the machines, do they? So why do companies expect it of tech workers?

    • BY Zarus says:

      As someone who has been working in the IT industry for 30+ years and kept on current technologies, you might want to explain why it is that most US big corporate companies help lines are staffed by those who can barley speak English? You lie to yourself, this nation is being driven by greed and looking to bring in those who will work for nothing. The wages of Americans has been on a steady decline due to gov allowing foreigners to work in this nation, thousands , if not millions of jobs have been outsourced overseas, where the people are exploited. I have been in this business too long, you are dead wrong. No offense, truly. This nation has an obligation to hire Americans before letting foreigners come here.

      • BY Don King says:

        I agree 100%. Companies have been sold a line of crap by outsourcing companies. By the time companies figure out they’ve been snookered, it’s too late. They’ve already spent their budget allocation and have either gotten inferior product, or none at all. Then they have to start all over. In the end they end up spending 3 times or more their original projections, using American systems engineers that they should have hired to begin with.

        Over the past 5 years or so, there is starting to be a trend to bring that work back onshore. It’s slow, but beginning to happen.

    • BY Dave Lister says:

      This “prevailing wage” argument is bull. There is a reason that salaries in tech have stalled out and it’s called supply and demand. The very existence of the supply causes what you refer to as prevailing wages to go flat and yes, even fall – for everyone. Then the only people who can and will take these jobs are H-1 slave labor and Wipro contact slaves.

  8. BY Andy Hough says:

    Is an IT position a gift or a right? I believe that in a capitalistic market, if a company can hire someone that can do a job for $25 an hour that will work for 60 hrs/week or someone for $50 who has a family life, then that is fair.

    There is a cost to every decision, however. There are intrinsic benefits to loyalty and relationship. I worked for a small consulting company early in my career. A few weeks after I started, the owner called me on a Friday afternoon and told me to take my wife to dinner, expense it and not to spend less than $100. Another time when I asked for time off to close on our first house, he gave me a $5000 rise as his contribution to my family. These two acts that cost a total of about 2.50 /hr in profit engendered a huge amount of good will, loyalty and effort on my part. This attitude seems to be about money, but is really about relationship and attitude.

    On the IT projects that I have worked with H1B consultants, and in my travels to South America, it has been my experience that I can not keep up.

    Once I sat next to a gentleman on a plane who had an impressive business and political resume, sat on 9 boards, and owned a private company with over 500 employees. I asked him if he could put his finger on a single thing in his life that most contributed to his success. He said he was raised on a dairy farm and never wanted to work that hard again. This executive and my H1B cohorts seem to share a similar work ethic. I wonder if it would be useful to consider if entitlement is a productive work ethic?

    • BY reader17 says:

      Nicely put :) It would probably be useful to imagine who we would hire if it was our own business hiring. You’ve had great bosses … the most I’ve ever gotten was free/leftover swag!

    • BY Tom C says:

      well then, you’re the only person on Earth who’s experienced any of that. If only that was the norm, rather than the exception, then there wouldn’t be this giant mess with mass of inept/incompetent H1B job robbers with fake CV’s. Or perhaps, you just don’t have the skills to know what is/isn’t good…that’s most likely the case

      • BY Nutella says:

        Are iOS, Objective-C, C, C++, MySQL, and PHP not “good enough” skills?

        Is having 11 apps in the Apple App Store good enough?

        Can you tell me what the difference is between an Objective-C protocol and category?

        Can you tell my why Apple switched to dot notation and ARC in Objective-C 2.0?

        Should you still use the -dealloc method in Objective-C classes today?

        Come on genius, tell us how to code!

        • BY Legal Immigrant says:

          Nautella,
          It might help if you start asking yourself – why am I not getting a job. If you are good in what you do, you can always start teaching others and make a living off of it.

          • BY SteveK says:

            If you can get a gig, it pays next to nothing on the college level. If you get into a school system, you get 3 years and your gone in the new scheme of things. Some else will have to chime in on the tech school level. My feeling is that it is not all that much either.

          • BY Corbow says:

            Putting teaching and making a living in the same sentence is an oxymoron. Public school teachers make peanuts, and they’re under attack by a right wing noise machine that paints them as overpaid babysitters. At the college level, much instruction is done by adjunct professors who make so little that they qualify for food stamps.

            Even a certified software trainer I met with recently is struggling to find enough work to make ends meet.

    • BY Nutella says:

      From 1978-1998 IT was 98% white American males. White American males spent 20 years building this industry before Indians, Chinese, or anyone else even got here. The rest of the world including the rest of America was sitting around doing nothing, messing with communism, or watching football while we invented the future. In 1998 we were told the invading hordes would only be here for Y2K and go home. Today they have TAKEN OVER everything.

      If you work for 20 years – especially if you work 100 hour weeks for 20 years, you EARNED the right to have that job. Meanwhile the rest of the lazy people who didn’t do any work to build that DON’T deserve those jobs?

      Should we all go to Japan and tell Toyota that it has to lay off all its Japanese workers who built the company and instead give those jobs away to eskimos?

      Why do Wall St’ers make $1 million a year on $3 mil in sales? I want one of those jobs. Lay off all the Wall St’ers and politicians in DC making $175K and give them to America’s unemployed tech workers. Why do THOSE people have an inviolable right to those jobs? Why aren’t THEY laid off and their jobs given to hordes of foreign invaders.

      Why is your standard only applied to American IT workers?

      We built it, we created it, yes, these jobs are our right, and no one else’s.

      Why doesn’t India have a guest worker visa program for 3 million American IT workers to go take IT jobs in India?

      We’re all globalizing, right?

      Oh – and there are too many black players in the NBA who think that job is their right. Lay them off and give their jobs to midgets.

      • BY Legal Immigrant says:

        Nutella
        Your grandpa, some 200 years ago, killed natives and declared this land as “my land”. Show me his visa/immigration papers. Why is it hurting you so much if in some manner Indians are doing the same to you?

        • BY unaligned says:

          I lol’d

          • BY Kay says:

            BaaaHaaaa! O no he didn’t, LOL! On a serious note though, it is more easy to see what others do wrong than ourselves. Lord thank you for your mercy and grace ’cause we are all a human mess when fail to put our God first. More importantly, if you believe the story of Noah then you understand that we are all distance relatives. Yes, you two that have me laughing so hard are distance relatives. :-)!

        • BY Stimpy says:

          Pretty insensitive there. How do you know N’s grandpa was living in this country 200 years ago? Mine wasn’t. How does this analogy rationalize a conspiracy to displace skilled Americans from jobs in this country? I think you will be singing a different tune when you get displaced.

    • BY sf95070 says:

      This attitude is why we passed labor laws in the 19th century. It is illegal to ask contract workers paid by the hour to work unpaid time. Yes, I know it happens all the time due to no enforcement, but it is illegal along with hiring 10 year olds because they work cheap.

      It also turns out to be short sighted. Henry Ford, not exactly known for generosity said it well. If the people who build Fords can’t afford to buy them, he has no market.

      If companies paid all workers a reasonable wage, rather than squeezing the life out of workers, both US and other workers could buy these products. The bright side of globalization is building a world wide middle class who buy more stuff and grow the world economy. The dark side is a world with a shrinking economy as only the oligarchs have money to buy things and they only need so many private jets.

    • BY steve says:

      “if a company can hire someone that can do a job for $25 an hour that will work for 60 hrs/week or someone for $50 who has a family life, then that is fair”

      No actually “fair” is something of a misleading term. in economics it is often used to mean simply that the marketplace determines the price. In law it means something very different and social justice fair is definitely not alligned with the market place. In a marketplace it may be fair for a rich person to pay to have lobbyist change laws that decrease their tax to zero and makes poor people pay all taxes. That is considered “fair” in market terminology because it’s done through the market system. The word “fair” being used here is effectively missleading.

      Also “fair”, according to definitioin of the marketplace, is not the same as humane or civilized or sustainable.

    • BY Zarus says:

      Americans need Americans, your thought process is what will destroy , is destroying this nation, America is all but dead. What will you do when she is gone? Where will you go? What nation will tolerate you? I have not had any problem keeping up with foreigners, they have had a problem keeping up with me. Your world view is not the world truth. I have found them to be slow, unconcerned with their responsibility, lazier then Americans, less productive, less respectful of corporate rules, taking more time off work. I don’t know what you have seen, I know what I have seen and most definitely our world views do not mesh. I will also point out to you, invasions of a country do not always involve violence, often, it is accomplished thru economic and poetical positions. Tell me, what will you do , where will you go , when America is no more?

  9. BY George says:

    Let’s all cry for the companies who depend exclusively on someone else to provide technical training. The reason why they can’t find professionals with “5 years of experience with a specific IT/STEM paradigm and experience with specific tools” is because five years ago they were not training them. Five years ago, when the “far-off horizon” was the quarterly report or near-term earned-value, suggestions to hire and train for the future were probably laughed out of the room.

    And now they can’t afford to rip those trained employees away from their current employers.

    • BY steve says:

      I agree. short term unsustainable business practice is a cause of the shortage of trained employees. I think it’s an unintended consequence of the finalization of the economy and driven by wall street and capital managers who have no quarterly interest in changing this system and are making the decisions. From a stock market perspective training employees does not make sense and they’re calling the shots in companies.

  10. BY ZAM ZAM COLA says:

    To upgrade skills one needs money, and to have money you need job. That means employees have to shell out more to upgrade than they earn.

  11. I don’t believe that any one is calling the workers brought in on H1B visa’s dumb. Most that I have worked with are very sharp, and a few others appeared to lie on their resume, and not have the skills and experience they claimed they had. I myself am not a programmer, nor am I a genius, I merely implement & manage IT infrastructure servers, such as Microsoft Exchange with Active Sync, Windows Server and Clusters, Active Directory, Black Berry Enterprise servers, Citrix, Vmware ESX, Storage Area Networks. While I am not the best at what I do, I was fairly good at it. Unfortunately, when I first became an IT person in 1996, companies would assist you with education, and allow you to keep your skills current, When I was at Intel in 2006, my manager denied my education reimbursement request for Phoenix Universities so I could continue my education, and in my opinion it is the Employers own fault that U.S worker’s are falling behind on their skills and why younger college students are looking at their unemployed Alumni, and realizing that another career field may be a better choice where they won’t get laid off every few years, and can retire with a pension. Now a days employers put too much on our plates making it difficult to continue our education while working. What companies are now doing is laying people off, including Indian and Chinese workers in the U.S.A, and expect them to use the time they have off to return back to school and update their education, then reinvent themselves when they are ready to return to the work force. In other words, you get to sit on the bench, what is the deciding factor, age, and pay scale. Prevailing wage only applies to companies that have Federal funding / Projects, and it is called the Davis Bacon Act, you can thank our Unions for getting that passed to make sure that companies bidding on contracts, don’t cut people’s wages so they can underbid, and keep all the profits for them selves, rather then pay fair wages that stay local to the communities that they live in.

  12. BY CD says:

    Ironic the ones interviewing expect us to walk on water when they coast and collect a pay check.

  13. BY Run And Run says:

    Oh I know a lot of Indian companies who hire people who have no work experience. They will tell you oh we can update your resume and they will put 5 or 7 years of experience in your resume. I also know that when the company want to have an interview someone with a work experience will have the interview for them caus they sound all alike. And the American Cos are stupid to think that a lot of Indians have a language barrier but know their field. No they don’t have a language barrier if you want to check it out ask them FTF interview. That is why they are always on the phone in their language at work place cauz they are asking their friends what to do after they get the job. Now look who is stupid…LOL!!!

  14. BY Run And Run says:

    Oh I know a lot of Indian companies who hire people who have no work experience. They will tell you oh we can update your resume and they will put 5 or 7 years of experience in your resume. I also know that when the company want to have an interview someone with a work experience will have the interview for them caus they sound all alike. And the American Cos are stupid to think that a lot of Indians have a language barrier but know their field. No they don’t have a language barrier if you want to check it out ask them FTF interview. That is why they are always on the phone in their language at work place cauz they are asking their friends what to do after they get the job. Now look who is stupid…LOL!!! I know a guy who said he is an accountant but cost the Company more than $1M cauz everybody thinks he knows what he is doing.. but guess what he admits that he doens’t know what he was doing for about 3 yrs he was working at the Co…LMOL

  15. BY stuck says:

    watch out for linkedin, they troll there & then remove you from the list immediately if recruiters don’t see a 100% match. Can’t taylor a resume anymore!

  16. BY Lisa says:

    Here’s a posting I applied for – Basically wanted 7 years in a data center, 5 years of supervisory experience and a high school education. Really? So, I have a bachelor’s and more than 5 years in a data center, 15 years doing tech support/customer service, I meet all of the requirements listed except supervisor. Hmm. Maybe I would have had a chance to become a supervisor if these companies didn’t keep outsourcing their help desks and data centers . . .

    I try to keep up with the latest thing. A few years ago, it was this, then it was this, then it was this. . . seriously, there is no way to determine what type of classes or certification to aim for. I’m currently working toward A+ because the zen master of all managers paid my way, but even in that there are idiotic points. The first thing EVERY A+ study guide says is RTM. And then they have you memorize the teensiest bit of information about windows 2000. Then I get a question about the best way to open the case on a laptop – I’m going with blow torch . . .

    Yes. I am bitter and frustrated. I know I most likely don’t have the knowledge and experience of a lot of the people commenting here, but I do know that I am trainable and can do just about anything if I get the chance. After being outsourced 3 times from major corporations and now working for the state doing the same work at less than half the pay, I’m thinking about going into manual labor. Or government . . . It apparently doesn’t take much to be an elected official.

    • BY Nutella says:

      You think that’s bad: try having written software at Apple and for PlayStation @ Sony and then not being able to get hired because hordes of invading Indians are robbing all the jobs and deliberately keeping Americans out of them.

      • BY Lisa says:

        Nutella,

        I saw that, and I think that’s just pitiful. You have all that demonstrated skill and talent and it makes no difference.

        When my job was outsourced this last time, I told my mom that I wanted a stable job. She agreed and said she’d keep an eye out for tech support listings. I said “no, I want a job in an actual stable, where all I have to do is shovel manure all day, don’t have to talk to people and there is no phone to answer.”. It is surprisingly difficult to find a job shoveling manure, I have discovered . . .

    • BY Nutella says:

      You are probably way smarter than the IQ81 Indians who are robbing the jobs. According to a 2008 UN/ILO report, India’s workers rank 54th in world productivity. Americans rank SECOND. Yet we flood our labor force with 54th/IQ81 people and then wonder why we’ve lost 28 million jobs since 1998. You are probably way smarter and way more qualified than any of these conmen who are here because they need jobs and can’t get them at home.

    • BY steve says:

      it’s not what you know it’s who you’ll support on the job. The first thing any recruiter looks for is how you’ll fit in. By “fit in” they mean will you rock the boat or go along with whatever they say. A recruiters worst fear is hiring someone who say something negative about them as a recruiter, so the first test is if you can identify who’s going to be in control of your future (them) and favor them appropriately. You have the mistaken idea recruiters are trying to help the company or help you or help anyone but their own career. A recruiter is more like a politician in the regard that their job priorities are centered around boosting their own power and security. A recruiters worst fear is hiring someone who does a great job, but doesn’t say great things about the recruiter or the people the recruiter will be having the employee work with.

    • BY Don King says:

      “certifications” are a joke. I’ve been in IT long before there was any thoughts about “certifications”, or even Computer Science degree programs at any universities. When I started in the field, there were only a handful of universities that had devised a core curriculum for Computer Science.

      They’re (inclusive of universities) merely an extension of risk avoidance and the “good ‘ol buddy network”. The theory being, if someone else can attest to someone’s expertise and credibility, then “I” (corporation, university, private enterprise, etc.) don’t have to take a risk and lose money, in the event that someone isn’t quite up to accomplishing the work I need done. Somebody else, even the individual themselves, as is the case with universities and certificate programs, has undergone the expense to learn and can perform in a “professional” capacity.

      I’ve seen dysfunctional, educated, idiots in IT than true scientists that really understand technology, inclusive of physics, mathematics, engineering, and science, than I wish to admit. The highly degreed (PhD’s, etc.) and “certified” individuals are long on credentials and short on delivery. I have a couple of degrees. The only reason I got them was to placate the morons that try to make an assessment of my capabilities when they have no clue as to what technology is. Far as I’m concerned my degrees (Cptr Sci, Accounting) are a competitor to toilet paper. But these are the only things morons outside the field can relate to.

      Results are secondary. I actually had a contract representing the 3rd largest computer company in the world, to the US government, for a “certification”. During the course of it, the gov’t asked for tons, literally, of documentation regarding all their products. Some of them they asked for didn’t exist. The response from the gov’t was if these things didn’t exist, then the steps necessary to engineer computers could not have been taken. Therefore, how could I “prove” the validity of their technologies and products? My response: About 165 million implementations (product users) worldwide, including the US gov’t, over a period of over 40 years. They honestly didn’t know how to deal with that! This is no joke.

      It’s that kind of (lack of) mentality that permeates an industry and profession they can’t, nor ever will, understand, and serves as a monolith blocking advancement of technology, for all of civilization. Until people recognize it is a profession that spans beyond any other, they will continue to cheapen and attempt to discredit what they don’t understand.

      Do they, or you, ask these types of questions of a doctor, lawyer, physicist, or other type of engineer? Such as “who was your supervisor”? Give me a f***** break! Of course not. But until laymen recognize it, the BS will remain the same.

      Biggest reason is that they see something they don’t understand, and try to put a fence around it (“market cap” on Wall Street). Because like other morons, such as multi-level marketing pukes, recruiters, headhunters, and senior executives, they see a “simple” way to make money off it. In the case of IT, matching buzzwords. They’re too damn stupid to do anything else. So, they create artificial barriers to suck money off the true professionals.

      The only way I see it changing is for everyone in the field to stand up and say “This is what I can do for you. This is the price. If you don’t like it, then, do it yourself.”. At that point, they have nowhere else to turn except to other professionals that say the same thing.

      I just said that today to someone as a matter of fact.

  17. BY Peter L. Berghold says:

    What I’m seeing is two things:

    1) Job req’s are being written with a broad swath of skill sets that you rarely find in one person. You cannot possibly know it all.

    2) The number of years experience in each skill in the req required is darn near impossible.

    A good example of #2. 5+ years systems administration experience and 5+ years experience in storage technologies in the same req.

    In my experience larger firms split up responsibility between the systems guys and the storage crew. Storage folk end up be specialized. Systems folk end up specialized.

  18. BY menoindian says:

    I have been working in the Oracle apps for over 18 years, it has gotten worse with INDIA. All the comments above are true relating to them. I don’t mind good competition (it is dog eat dog world) but to have UNETHICAL strategy and approach at every level of Oracle consulting industry is not warranted in America.
    What is the saying, “if you can’t beat them, play them at their own game” (definitely NOT join them). That’s exactly what I intend to do.

    INS sued INFOSYS for over $10 Million dollars for H1 fraud and they are paying it back. There’s your proof for all those that are righteous. And if you’re caucasian looking, becareful because Indian speak to you differently than when they speak to another Asian. Because they share their intimate social feelings and experience of how they dislike America to you than to me. You got it buddy. And even when it comes to tax, my tax accountant even share to me the stories of Indian’s trying to weasel out of paying tax because they claim to move back to India, etc.

    Don’t be quick to response unless you “truly” been there done that, just because you have the “freedom of speech”, it can get you in trouble more often than that.

  19. BY DudeGurl says:

    The problem is see is a lot of those H1 workers are now in positions of power. They’ve taken over companies and government. And most of those are Indian workers whom basically stick to their own. They know how to play the social game, but they will lend a hand to one of their own and help them up the ladder, taking over all the management and high paying jobs. The country pretty much belongs to them now, or will soon.

    • BY Legal Immigrant says:

      Well, how many times when a director of IT moves from company A to company B, his entire team eventually lands in company B? What you just said is coming out of American playbook.

  20. BY extremelyWellQualifiedYetUnemployed says:

    I call BS

    The ‘problems’ include
    - the industry is drowning in totally inept and overcompensated recruiters who don’t know difference between a photon and a crouton
    - many tech hiring managers same problem as above (though may have an MBA)
    - many employers prefer drastically overspending time and money to find a young ‘celebrity’ candidate… from a name school.. rather than quickly hiring a better all-round candidate that may need just 2 days to ramp up or dust off rust to be better than the celebrity candidate. It makes zero sense.
    - the ongoing and very real and damaging manipulation of the labor market as an organized campaign amongst a large pool of employers – via PR narratives throughout media about need for H1-Bs and via intense lobbying efforts offering even our personal information to NSA as payment

  21. BY BuzzR says:

    Q: you know how you can tell when a recruiter is lying ?
    A: their lips and mouth are moving

  22. BY GetReal says:

    Another factor is the quality of Recruiters and HR personnel. Many do not really understand what they are supposed to be hiring for, so they are not calling upon the best candidates, especially if money is the client’s first concern. It’s a fact that software quality has dropped due to outsoucing and off-shoring. If companies can continue to import foreign labor they will not invest in the citizens of this country – meanwhile taking advantage of tax breaks and infrastructure those citizens are paying for. Only one solution people, get corporate money out of politics, so they can’t write the laws and own what are supposed to be our representation. Join the fight, Citizens United must go!

  23. BY Corporation whores says:

    Companies who want to reside in America and do H1B I want out of America period. They can take their products with them and sell them to third world companies. Seriously. I would show these maggots no mercy period. Your out. Take your money and your jobs. They aren’t worth anything. This whole article is nothing more than the usual mindless swill we have been reading since 2001. Seriously. It is. People don’t have the skills is the mantra corporations use for cheap labor. Expose those companies and lets destroy them.

  24. BY paul says:

    The writer of this article has not done adequate research. It is a sign of inferior reporting when a journalist prints an article which continues to keep a lie going. Listen to all those who posted here. They are where the truth lies. My husband, an IT person, has even been interviewed by these H1b people who are in a position to recommend hiring. He was given an over-the-phone techie test that was ridiculous and hard to understand his accent. You know that he had two tests, one for the H1b candidates and one for the poor under-trained, overpaid American.

  25. BY reader17 says:

    I’ve been looking for a new job for 3 months now since my last contract ended. I’ve had very few interviews, and of those, the IT leads have dug deeper than I’ve ever experienced to see if you really know the technology. Saying I’d look up an API if I can’t remember a class feature is no longer an acceptable answer.

    I thought it would help to spend $2700 for a Web Service online course, but that wasn’t enough. I have 2 other certifications, but that’s not enough. I lowered my hourly/salary expectations to what they were 3 years ago, but that’s not enough. I’ve created a website exhibiting my skillset, but that’s not enough. I’ve worked for 3 years as a consultant, but that’s not enough. I’ve posted my resume on Dice and Careerbuilder, got dozens of calls from recruiters, half of whom wanted me to relocate, and some insisting that I come into their offices – and still, my efforts garnered only a few actual company interviews. I have 10 years of mainframe followed by 6 years of Java/J2EE experience. It’s now 2014 and I’m still looking/praying/coding with hopes for just one job or contract offer. Thank goodness my past qualified me for unemployment, which barely helps with the mortgage.

    I’ve worked with offshore guys living in India on past contracts. Like many US Citizens, most of my co-workers have been awesome. My Indian friends have been quick to mentor, to collaborate in team environments. They deserve whatever money they make in whatever country they live. My biggest beef I guess would be the cost of education here in the States. I can see why companies don’t provide 3rd party training, but for the most part they need, at the very least, to have more lunch-n-learns and other in-house mentoring to bring their existing workplace up on ever-changing technologies. Otherwise, folks like myself will leave after getting bored doing the same things for years … even if it means contract work.

    • BY Rae says:

      By now you should understand this: it doesn’t matter the skills you have, if you are not willing to relocate to where the jobs happen to be, whose fault is it? I mean if you owned a business would you just close shop and go open in someone’s town just to hire him?

      I can tell you one thing. If you DO have 10 years of mainframe and 6 years of J2EE experience, you are the only reason you are still jobless, and I suspect it has to do with your unwillingness to move, come to Texas (Dallas or Austin), go to Cali. You WILL find a lot of jobs. Don’t get me wrong, you might be unable to relocate through no fault of your own, but again, you can’t blame anyone for that.

  26. BY SayWhat? says:

    As someone currently looking for a job, I am so frustrated by the calls I’ve been getting from Indian recruiters. They are the first ones to jump on my resume and are relentless. I guess it’s admirable that they are “working” – except for the fact they know squat about what they are supposed to be hiring for. They see a few irrelevant words sprinkled on my resume and all of a sudden, I am receiving an avalanche of calls and emails that has nothing to do with my field of expertise or desired career choice. One word on my resume from an experience 10 years ago does not make me an expert for what they are supposed to be recruiting for. It is akin to virtual harrassment! Learn how to read a resume!! After dozens of these calls and emails, I became extremely annoyed and am not happy with the quality of their “work”. Add to the fact that they should not be in a field where speaking to an American client is an issue…the accents are so thick and horrible I cannot believe they have the nerve to call me.

    • BY Rae says:

      Why don’t you bypass the recruiters entirely and go to the hiring managers yourself? You don’t have to deal with recruiters if you have skills, I don’t understand your animosity.

      • BY SteveK says:

        Ah, the provocateur has arrived. Your replies suggest that you are one of the paid commentators whose purpose is to defuse the discussion.

        We won’t relocate to suit the whims of the corporate masters – your fault.
        The recruiters have a stranglehold on jobs, go around them. – your fault.
        Plant moved, you should have worked for less – your fault.
        or you could move on your own cost and keep your job for half the pay – your fault.

        I wouldn’t relocate to Texas on a bet. I want my children to know that the world is a lot older than 6000 years. I wouldn’t send your children to a Texas school, why would I want to turn mine into mindless drones. North Dakota – live in a car because there is no housing. North Carolina – another backward school system that pays teachers the same amount they would get at Walmart. did I leave any of the the standard job centers out? Oh, FL – house people under the bridges,

        If you are real, you are naive. Eventually, you will reach a point where Corporate no longer will have a use for you and you will end on the discard heap. Good luck with that.

        • BY Rae says:

          If I were a paid commenter I would take it easy on you folks, but instead I think most of you guys REFUSE to keep up with time. By the way I have my resume on Dice here, and there hasn’t been a day I haven’t had a recruiter call me and a company attempt to interview me. If you want we can take it off this site and get on Skype, Google+, and use our real identities, if you think someone is paying me to be here. But the truth is that here and there I get some decent info from Dice, but scrolling down to the comments is always the same tired nagging happening. People didn’t used to be like this in this country, so I’m just pointing it out.

          Back to your post, I think I got what the problem is, reading your comments: you are unwilling to relocate. Stevek, understand that I don’t blame you. All I’m saying is that times are hard, and if you make a strict decision not to move to where the jobs are, what are the companies going to do?

          And by the way I do live in Texas, and I graduated from UT Austin (a liberal university), and lived in Austin (a liberal city, in the heart of Texas. So you don’t have to be a hardcore, bible-thumping conservative to live and work here. I disagree with them, but I respect them, they respect me, and we coexist. I’m here for the high wages and the low cost of living. My brother, a software engineer, lives in Cali. High wages, high cost of living. All this to tell you that many of your stereotypes are not true, they are limiting you, in my humble opinion.

          Eventually, will I reach a point where Corporate no longer has a use for me? Yes, if I stay stagnant. But if I keep reinventing myself, building stronger architect skills, and more managerial skills, they will have no choice but to move me up so they can profit off my knowledge. I don’t think there is anything naive about that.

          • BY SteveK says:

            Rae, you make a lot of silly assumptions.which justifies the comment – you are dangerously naive. Or as I said, you are one the monkeys that are hired to troll the comments and make sure the ‘correct’ viewpoint is asserted.

            I am on my 7th or 8th remake. I started in mainframe, went through mid-range, distributed processing, Unix, PC, LAN, finally ending up working with database administration.

            You assume I did not keep up. I was bailling out the H1B when they came for me.

            I have worked in numerous industries. Even worked for a gentleman from Texas called Ross Perot who taught me that you can tell a Texan, but not much. The Texan supervisor in a facilities contract, that I was relieving was having difficulties with a job he was running. Couldn’t figure out what the problem was. I had heard a high pitch whine that I knew was a crashed drive when I walked into the data center. I told the problem to the supervisor and he immediately want to move the disk (they were portable drives back then). I told him that protocol was not to move the disk because you tend to destroy the new drive. This clown moved it to six different drives. IBM wouldn’t honor the maintenance contract because of him and sent a rather large bill to the client. Perot and his idiots were out there shortly thereafter. I had a new job within the week, I will not suffer fools.

            Unless you are a fool, you are aware that Texas has one of highest poverty rates. The Texas board of education has insisted that teachers are not to teach ‘critical thinking’ because it might interfere with parental authority. The list of things wrong with Texas is long. Your governor is considered a head hunter I watched an interview with a California congressman who referred to Perry as ‘the thief’ who was visiting businesses in California at the time. The southern governors come up north and steal businesses by offering them all sorts of free passes, tax breaks that impoverish their constituents, but get the jobs. Your view is that I should foolishly follow this trend. Been there, done that.

            Your idea is that we become nomads and follow the corporate herds that suck up the tax breaks, then find another dumb politician to give them more and move there.

            I live in area that is within 3 hours of one third of the US population. They call this the silicone strip, the new competitor to California. Why should I consider relocation.

            I live where most of the southern manufacting businesses started. . They all moved south where they could do what they wanted, buy the politicians and turn the towns in dumping grounds. They got the jobs, but at what cost. If West Virginia isn’t sounding alarm bells in your head, you aren’t paying attention or you are listening to Fox News.

            I spent some time in Germany, touring their businesses, living with German families and finding out how they managed to create a positive trade balance. They basically told me Ferrari’s philosophy – worry about the product line, not the bottom line. We were moving all our clothing manufacturing off shore because wages were too high. Germany had a wage twice ours, but had a positive export balance in clothing. But we here in the US (particularly Texas) keep insisting that Europe doesn’t know what it is doing, we do it so much better – yeah, right.

            I once believed I had the skill set to set the terms. I and my friends joked how we interviewed the employers, not the other way around. A few years in the reality tank taught me a lot, but I learned that I cannot go it alone when there is a whole lot of money to be made by making me and the other people on this comment stream extinct.

            I used to put down unions, until I saw what unions can do for workers and until one of them came to my rescue. Workers are being sold out by this nation and fools like you keep electing fools like Cruz who is running the auction.

  27. BY Lisa says:

    I have tried working with recruiters every time my job was outsourced. Every time, it went exactly the same way. I’d be looking for a job, I’d find one posted by a recruiter. I’d contact the recruiter about that specific job, go in and fill out all the (million pages of) paperwork (that, even though they are IT RECRUITERS, they just can’t seem to converted into electronic forms), then I’d be told “well, that job is on hold indefinitely but here is a 3 week temp job for a call center working graveyard for minimum wage, would you be interested in that?”

    Uh, no.

  28. BY Eric says:

    Reading these comments is seriously making me consider quitting IT for good and going back into the trades. A lot of people I used to work with in IT are doing just that and finding more work and better pay.

  29. BY sam sdeed says:

    For a laugh read if doctors were treated like software engineers. On collapsereport

    Also chechout h-1b horror on collapsereport

  30. BY sam sdeed says:

    They often tell engineers who do real languages like c shape c plus plus and Java that they aren’t qualified cause the dumb founders did a site mockup in ruby. Well ruby won’t scale and is a piece if crap interpreted language without real typing. So what they are really saying is you aren’t smart enough as a college grad to do first grade work. Why do they do this? Because they are idiots.

    • BY Nutella says:

      Most American managers and execs are afraid of American IT engineers since we have the power to totally upend the existing status quo and powers that be. Jealous American execs who think they should make more than everyone else aren’t anywhere near as smart as American IT workers so they want us out. They want pliable, dumb slaves who will just shut up and do what they want.

      • BY steve says:

        it’s a market economics strategy that makes recruiters do this. Basically a recruiter makes a lot of money off a placement and might place 3 or 4 people a year to get their commission and make their own salary. They use half the commission for cold calling and intercepting any open jobs so they can be the middle person and get their cut of the sign on bonus. If your a recruiter your only job is to call prospective applicants and play the volume numbers. It’s not like they do anything besides pass your information along to someone else so the

  31. BY reader17 says:

    Ever consider starting your own LLC and marketing your skillset? I did … wouldn’t recommend it though. There are a million other boutique firms out there who are looking for clients too. I post on Freelancer, elance, odesk. … if you haven’t looked yet, you’ll get a big laugh. Folks in Bangladesh are literally bidding on projects at $2 / hr, low-balling even Indians – and of course the low bidders are getting the projects. If cost me around $2000 for Legal Zoom to get my LLC started. Waste of money so thought I’d pass this on. Maybe things will work out, but after 3 months of unemployment, seriously thinking of changing careers.

  32. BY Jay says:

    “Employers Say this is Why You’re Not Getting Hired” ———– ‘ Here is how! ‘

    I am in the in the industry for 13 years and have see the colors from both the sides and here they are:

    Companies:
    - Their IT Requirements are consolidated, meaning merging TWO Jobs in to One
    by consolidating the job skills; so that they can make PROFIT by not filling the other job. (ex: Instead of asking ‘Java Developer’, they want ‘JAVA Developer & DBA administrator’ or ‘QA Analyst and BA/Developer’….. etc. ….what a pity.
    - They don’t want to provide the training with ever-changing technology skills.
    - Always want CHEAP IT workers and they like to DUMP more H1B’s in to USA.
    - Expects you to shut up and work more hours (mostly for free) / H1B’ do that otherwise they are fearful for their VISA and other commitments.
    - They like to fire you in a heartbeat if they smell some CHEAP IT shops or shots across the office buildings or off shore buildings.
    - They lie all the time by saying “We can’t find enough talented (techie) people in the US”,
    well the EXACT meaning is “We can’t find enough CHEAP tech people as our corporate servants”….no wonder why they are lobbing for “Immigration Reform” currently.

    Recruiting Companies :
    - Most of the times they lie, especially the Indian recruiting companies
    - Indian recruiting companies outsource most of the recruiting jobs to India and they have no clue on how things work here (in USA) or the way of life here or HOW TO SPEAK IN ENGLISH to an IT professional.
    - Often these recruiting companies want to pay us only 30 to 40% of what they are making from the client.
    - They expect you to move across the State lines for every contract (avg, every 6 months ) for their profit.
    - They ask you to put fake experience and skills to match with job requirements (which is a laundry list).
    - Their current employees will take interviews for the new job seeker with FAKE experience.
    - * Now a days H1B’s are in management positions and taking bribes under the table for each hire from their Indian recruiting companies who employ Indians most of the times….Hope you got it now. If this trend continues, I am afraid that these people will spread corruption practices widely in USA similar to overseas.

    I am not sure how this will end up or where this will end up, but one thing is for sure that the QUALITY of the (IT) work product is poor in lot of IT shops and ultimately getting polluted with blame games with in the environment costing companies big time.

    I believe “Quality” never dies and it is important that companies should consider hiring Quality people with good moral values, integrity and ethics; even though they lack one or two IT skills. These are the very people that they can be trained, can be very productive, would be loyal and ultimately drives the profits for a company. …..Thanks for your time..Keep smiling :-)

  33. BY Bob Johnson says:

    It’s all a game the corporations have to play in order to get more H-1B visas from Congress. They don’t want to hire any American over the age of 50 (some are even as low as 40). They’d rather word their job descriptions “just so”, so only an H-1B holder could possibly fill the position. That way they can work the visa holder to death, and if they complain, it’s back to India.

  34. BY Ivan H. Manoogian says:

    I do not want to go in details now, but the Discrimination level in this country is very high,
    and they say there is no discrimination ,
    We do not Discriminate …………………………………………………. .
    ball of shit , sorry to say.

  35. BY Christine Davis says:

    Recruiters have a total misunderstanding of what IT talent is. After 20 years as a COBOL programmer and manager I took courses in other languages to increase my background. I found that most languages are variations on a theme and a good knowledge of logic makes all of them straightforward for someone with programming talent to learn in a couple of weeks. This is a reasonable training period for any job.

    H1B holders should not be unable to leave the job that sponsored them for another US job. If they were free to move, they would make market wages.

  36. BY OnTheDL says:

    I clicked on the link to this article hopping to read something insightful. Unfortunately I was left with ‘you’ll be hired’ – “If you have the right skills of course”. Really? Well, that’s just simply brilliant and quite informative no doubt *sigh*. How about something actually helpful next time? As is all too often the case with these kinds of articles, any value (and entertainment for that matter) may be found in the comments and not the article itself.

    Peace,
    -OnTheDL.

  37. BY crm says:

    I haven’t had the need to be in the job market for some time now – but “back in the day” when I had to compete with the H1B people – I noticed that there was (seemingly) NOTHING they couldn’t do. I even got beat-out when a job I held when to FTE because I refused to refer to myself as “an expert” in something and my H1B counterpart said he was the most expert of experts!

    ha ha ha… that was really salt in a wound to me. Who the heck refers to themselves as “expert of experts” and is believed? this guy, apparently… because he got the job. And when the system went down, and he didn’t know what to do – he told his boss that I (the lowly consultant) was not cooperating with him. I got called in and interrogated… “why wouldn’t [I] help the new guy?” I said “I am a simply an administrator. How could I presume to tell an “expert of experts” how to do his job?”

    I went on my merry way to another job… I heard it was a rather painful year for this guy and the company as they realized the meaning of “penny wise, pound foolish”.

  38. BY Swampie777 says:

    Why is this not reflected by voting out the idiots that pushed for this Global Economy fiasco? It isn’t working, it won’t work. What good is hiring cheep to keep the profits bloated, if the middle class can’t spend money to keep the economy going? Do you think the Indians and the Mexicans are going to do what it takes to get the infrastructure supported to the 1960′s level? Instead of spending here, the Mexicans are sending large amounts of money back to the home country( so the Pope can tithe the poor more). Remember when we were kids and our parents griped about us not eating when there were starving kids in India? Well we sent millions in foreign assistance to India only to have their country’s leaders sell it off so they could buy their first nuclear weapons. When you invite the foreigners in, their culture and previous national interests come with them. So don’t count on them being here for America. To them, this is just a paycheck.

  39. BY Trish says:

    I must disagree. The folks are out there to be hired. The companies under estimate the cost of skilled technology and don’t want to pay the market rate. Can you blame us for not taking the breadcrumb wages being offered?

    The PMI.org salary survery came out in January. But the salaries being offered don’t match the survey. These companies need a reality check.

  40. BY Ronald says:

    Many American companies and local GOVs would rather hire H1B than a Vet.

    • BY Rae says:

      It depends, if you are unskilled, the fact that you are a vet is relevant. Could you stand up and say that there is a skill/craft that you are very good at? Otherwise it’s your own fault.

      • BY Ronald says:

        Why do you suggest that it is one’s own fault; when a Vet is not hired in lieu of an H1B? Additionally you seem to suggest that it is the lack of skill of the Vet that allows him or her to remain unemployed. If… “Many American companies and local GOVs would rather hire H1B than a Vet.” offends you … then you do not understand that many Vets leave the service of their country with a viable skill or craft. By the way read … “Detroit’s Turnaround Plan Calls for Tech-Skilled Immigrants” … and for whatever reason… “Many American companies and local GOVs would rather hire H1B than a Vet.”

        • BY Rae says:

          I followed your advice and read that piece . There is a fundamental part I disagree with, where the consultant says (I’m paraphrasing): “we cannot hire new graduates because there is a disconnect between what colleges/universities are teaching and what the work force needs”. I think instead of just giving up, they should communicate exactly those disconnect so universities can address them.

          In regard to my comment and your response, whose fault would it be then? If a position comes up, and the vet does not have a skill, I mean I guess you can make a case that society has the duty to train the vet, in recognition of the sacrifice he made, but it’s hard to pin the blame on the company and make it an H1B situation. Of course if a company has a need for a skill and both the vet and the H1B have that skill, it is wrong and should be illegal to hire the H1B.

          So my point is that tech skills can be developed, but one has to develop the right skill. If a company needs those skills and you or I do not have it, I wouldn’t blame and H1B for taking it.

  41. BY Bob Collins says:

    One huge reason that technical positions aren’t being filled has been mentioned already – the worker’s age. I know, it happened to me and if I could prove it… I had applied to a company for an Oracle DBA role. They wanted someone with many years of RAC experience. I have 5+ years with RAC. They got my resume and figured out my age from the job history on the resume. Got a call stating that I didn’t have 7 years of RAC experience. What would you think?

    Add 20+ years Oracle experience, 10+ years of SQL Server, some Sybase, Informix, and some DB2, you surely begin to wonder. Then, on top of this, add years of UNIX system experience… Well, If I could prove age discrimination, I would surely go after them.

    I know I’m in the over 50 group, but I am not ready to “hang it up” yet! I have looked on some of the sites where the H1B’s are listed. They ARE willing to work for next to nothing. I have also seen the code and database work those guys generate. It’s horrible. I’ve had to clean-up that mess. We have reached a pitiful level in the U.S. We want to say “Made in the USA”, but companies are not willing to pay us native US folks to do the job.

  42. BY Kevin says:

    “Why You’re Not Getting Hired; Detroit Wants 50,000 Tech-Skilled Immigrants”.

    That was the title of the email Dice sent me which linked me to this article, and interestingly enough is pretty much all that needs to be said on this subject. Just change the semi-colon to a colon and that is indeed the final word on all this….

    • BY Robert ap Richard says:

      How ironic. The person who write the by-line is probably an HB1 who doesn’t know the difference between a colon and a semi-colon.

  43. BY alan says:

    let me add my two cents here. I have been writing incredibly esoteric complex scientific applications for the past 20 years…mainly C/C++. What I have seen in the last 5-10 years in the hiring process is this penchant to see how qualified a person is by seeing how good an academic jeopardy contestant they are. What I saw at my last employer was an R&D group full of people who obviously were good at the game but fell FLAT on their face if you asked them to solve a problem they did not know the answer to beforehand. What happens then is they have to get rid of those people saying they didn’t work out, and HR decides they have to come up with even more goofy pop quizzes and hoops to jump through to find someone who will. I knew the director of the R&D group and was able to bypass entirely the interviewing process, which is how I got in…otherwise my guess is they wouldn’t have given me the time of day. It amazed me…I was able to do more than 5 of these jeopardy contestants COMBINED…and companies wonder why the ability to solve their problems has been lost!!!!! When the bulk of the hiring process is testing for jeopardy contestants…is it really any surprise that those people can’t solve your problems!!!!!

  44. BY Freelancer says:

    This article is out if touch with reality. I am sure Myra Thomas has a good job, steady paycheck every 2 weeks and has no clue what it’s like to “pound pavement” in recent years.
    In the last 5 years everything’s changed – the hiring process culture and ethics. The potential employers want something for nothing or very little or outsource to 3rd world countries or interview new job prospects as a scare technique to bring their recent employees to higher productivity.
    The help wanted advertisements are mostly bogus or for marketing purposes to display false prosperity.
    Let’s be honest – there are very few job opportunities in the US and it will be a long time before the economy start turning around and there will be more confidence and less uncertainties in the US markets.

    • BY Rae says:

      You are wrong. Again I’m straight out of college but I’m getting tons of offer, and I’m a US national. So your outsource talk is not grounded in reality.

      • BY Freelancer says:

        Oh really? Where do you live? And do you get those offers from Walmart for $8 per hour? Outsource is not grounded on reality? What do are talking about?? Just go to any store everything’s made in China :-). Go on Elance or other job beards and see how many tech gig are offered to the Indians. And oh wait and how about those Millions of Americans being on Food stamps a Unemployment benefits.

        • BY Rae says:

          I live in Austin TX, and the offers for CS college graduates are anywhere from 65k, to 98k. I’m not going to disclose how much I make, but you could check on Glassdoor and the likes and see for yourself how much people are making.

          America has a job problem, I have zero doubts about it. All I’m saying is that if you are in Tech (maybe I should say Software Development), you are not having the issues the rest of America is having.

      • BY Dave Lister says:

        You will learn. Hopefully the hard way.

        • BY Don King says:

          Here! Here! Classic “newbie”. It takes an average of 5 years in the field (some people less) to get dry behind the ears and understand the circus. He/she will have to learn the hard way.

  45. BY MDeYoung says:

    Employers seem to WANT IT ALL NOW! If you have 3 out of 5 skill sets (rather than figure the odds of you successfully picking up the other two via OJT, etc) after all you’re almost there, NO! the Employer DEMANDS ALL FIVE skill sets…NOW! or NO INTERVIEW! …that’s my experience anyways.

  46. BY scott says:

    they don’t want to grow the talent, they just want to pick the fruit and spit out the seeds when things change. Skills are skills, not the alphabet soup they tell their HR department to filter for. (not look but filter, trust me I’ve seen the software) No matter what the company is, there is their own way of doing it, and any new employee / employer relationship takes time to happen. basically will this person be able to work as part of our team. And most places just want the quick fix. Well if you want that just ask for consultants and put it on a 10-99, at least that way we can write off part of our home office and internet connection.

    • BY Rae says:

      Employers are not here to “grow the talent”. Are they supposed to be teaching you JavaScript, or C#? Why don’t you go to the library and get some textbooks and get to work. All you have to do is go on Amazon, find some highly rated programming book, and meticulously go though them.

  47. BY dibs says:

    Many are just here for blame game.
    Instead, Prepare yourself and work hard to make things better. Learn and be competitive.
    Any job is not so easy.
    Immigrants or Non Immigrants It doesn’t matter for a smart and hardworking person there is always opportunity. If you can not compete better stop complaining.
    FYI- Most of H1 visa people are NOT eligible for many permanent positions. Search any technology you are familiar in dice and you would see most of them for permanent resident and Citizen. Look at dice postings. Forget the time when people used to get job for doing nothing Its different america. Many companies don’t sponsor H1. You have all the advantages you need yet no one will spoon feed you. Many H1 VISA people work harder than they get paid. They have inflexibility of changing job even if their manager’s are ass. Would it be possible for you to be?
    How many are you here GRADUATE or Higher in degree?
    FYI-I do and that too from a top University.
    Come on guys stop complaining here -do you know H1 visa holder pay more tax than Green card or Citizen yet they get no wages or benefits. Huh.

    Another thing- Loyalty and team SIZE matters here. Big institution need a big team and full commitment that’s why they give their project who can complete it irrespective of how many people they need its not their headache anymore.

    All of you are smart and intelligent but use brain where it is needed, not into making this place a political debate.

  48. BY Rae says:

    Wow look at this people here blaming someone else for their failure. Well guess what? I’m just graduating from college. It says on my resume “US NATIONAL” and guess what? I am getting so many calls from interviewers left and right, I have to screen my calls now.

    Enough with the H1B B.S. Go learn some real skills, get a couple of Java certifications, write some basic Android app like I did, and see if you won’t get 80k offers *easily*. Stop posting and get to work.

  49. BY Old Guy says:

    We had so many Indian H1B’s at Kmart 20 years ago, we called them the Calcutta Connection. But that was just temporary. As of 2012, at Sears in Hoffman Estates (HQ), there were a fair number, but less than 50% of staff. Sears had built a building for Sears Holding India, staffed it up, and then laid off a huge number of IT folks in May, 2012 (including me, 65 at the time) and sent the work offshore. From my perspective, the problem is not H1B’s, but offshore. And I think it will get worse. My advice to young folks: choose a career in something that cannot be outsourced. Period. Sad, isn’t it?

  50. BY TNT says:

    We should not look at this simply as one-dimensional problems between employers vs. unemployed or natives vs. foreign workers. From an economics’ point of view employment is an important issue, but not the only one. Even if we assume openings and job offers are genuinely based on real needs, employers likely consider other factors such as overall costs, alternative supplies, and return on investments whether labor or capital. Previous comments already discussed the first two, so this post will just focus on the last issue of investment.

    It seems that despite governments’ incentives the corporate sector as a whole prefers making a quick buck on the capital market rather than the labour one. Indeed with corporate bail-outs and cheap money (through rounds of quantitative easing, low interest rates, or other stimulus programs) it is still baffling to experts why unemployment remains high, until data from the capital market reveal quite a rosy picture for investors last year (just before last week’s minor correction following the Fed’s tapering announcement). Call it greed, moral hazard, or problem of “externality”, or one of the common good, right now there seems to be no remedy. On a purely technical footing, all that came from the government’s end recently amounts to a quiet strategic withdrawal from the stimulus front.

    There is hope though. News from across the pond recently reported spontaneous popular movements, like one (in the NY Times) in that most unlikely place of the near-bankrupt Greek republic that aims to cut out the middlemen, or initiatives in France to facilitate insertion of the young, or re-insertion of otherwise hard-to-employ people, into the employment market. While there are many differences, these all seems to revolve around a notion of ‘social cohesion’ or solidarity. If appeals to higher moral orders, or policies punishing greed, or all else fail, perhaps the call to arms for the unfortunate nowadays would be: Unemployed, organize! (to avoid a misleading word related to unions).

    • BY bluemountain184 says:

      What’s so bad about unions?

    • BY sf95070 says:

      You hit most of the important points, but I would add the following. When the economic crisis hit Bernanke went for QE because it was the only tool he could think of that didn’t require Congress to do something. When he started QE,he made speeches saying that QE was a very poor choice compared to a stimulus package fixing infrastructure or going to Mars or even building more weapons.

      Our wonderful Republican Party with their 4th grade education in economics and our wonderful Democratic Party with the backbone of an earthworm refused to pass a meaningful stimulus package.

      While I am not about to defend the morals or skills or corporate leaders, if they have no demand for their products there is no reason to hire people to make the products and they probably think twice about spending money to develop them. With no growth in demand the only way to show increasing profits is to cut costs.

      A better alternative would be to pay offshore workers enough to allow them to join the middle class. This would allow Ford to sell F-150s in India and allow US workers to be competitive. When the USA was in its prime, we looked to expand markets, not follow a death spiral of cost cutting.

      With QE making the cost of borrowing effectively 0% and no demand, corporations borrow money to buy back stock and buy other companies. This drives up stock prices and in the case of mergers, actually reduces employment. While I don’t buy the trickle down argument, it isn’t totally wrong either, so we do get a bit of employment from building Teslas and the low interest rates have helped home sales which create some jobs.

      The decisions by Congress compounded by selfish, short sighted actions by corporate have condemned the young to losing 10 years at the start of their careers and older workers to losing their incomes in the prime years for filling retirement accounts.

      So, while the supporters of the GOP and Tea Party act like the USA has a guaranteed future as the leader of the world, I would suggest that a history lesson looking at Rome, Britain and France might be enlightening. If we continue our policies of austerity at any cost, you may expect one of the developing countries to displace us as we displaced teh UK after WW II.

  51. BY Don King says:

    I’ve been hearing the same song for almost 30 years! “We don’t have enough IT talent in the US. Therefore we need to import some.”. This is the same pitch made by some Fortune 500 companies and hundreds, if not thousands, of headhunters (recruiting firms) across the US, made to Congress every year, to set, or raise the import quotas. And it is a complete, utter, LIE!

    The truth is we don’t have enough IT talent at a price they (companies) want to pay. Like one of the commenters on here said, bringing in an H1B makes the imported person an indentured servant for 3 years. They can’t quit the company that hired them or they’ll be deported and cannot come back to the US for at least 10 years. This game being played every year is literally “slavery”, which was supposedly banned 150 years ago. The exact same thing happens in domestic prostitution. We just use different names. The “pimps” are the marketing reps for the outsourcing (import) companies and the HR departments (Human Retards) of the US companies that use them. The “whores” are the H1B’s. Just like prostitution, the whores do all the work and the pimps get the money. No difference whatsoever. The pimps keep their whores in line by “illegal” force. The pimps in IT keep their whores in line with “legal” force. In reality, this is what it boils down to. In my opinion, it should be looked at in the same fashion and criminally prosecuted in the same fashion for the aforementioned purveyors of the “slave” trade of IT.

    The sad part is that the companies needing technology quite often don’t really know what they need. So, they pick up on whatever the latest “buzzword” is that they hear, and that’s what they want, or think they want. They put a price tag on the “job” they want to pay for the work to be done. Then that gets passed to recruiter/buzzword matchers who are even more clueless. They don’t find anyone in the US that has the specific buzzwords, or acronyms they can “match up” exactly. Outside the US, they’ll put whatever buzzwords or acronyms you want on a resume.

    Even if it doesn’t exist. I know. Not only have I seen them do it (outsourcing headhunters), I actually put it to the test. Several years ago I posted a job specifying a “potential” need for an IT expert with experience and qualifications using technology that didn’t exist. Near as I recall, I made up something about a distributed “Zen” operating system environment using “chromium multi processors”. Added standard high level languages that did/do exist and standard types of qualifications for a systems engineer. I got a handful of US based resumes, and at least a thousand resumes from India and China for such highly qualified IT experts, with years of experience in a technology that doesn’t exist! Does that give you an idea of the rampant fraud in IT? Particularly outside the US?

    The problems are now being exacerbated by colleges and universities giving out “non-technical” degrees in IT. That’s the same as saying a “hospital administrator” is a “medical professional or doctor”. Corporate America, universities, and particularly HR companies are trying to “cheapen” the field. So they can say, for example “I can get a systems analyst (that wouldn’t recognize a line of code if it bit them) for $75K/year. Yet you as a programmer expect $100K/year. How can you justify that?”. Real simple. You want the job done, pay me. Or, in your alternative world, have your 75K, “non-technical”, business analyst do it for you. Or since you think you know so much, but can’t even spell “IT”, do it yourself. End of story.

    Most of my colleagues with more than 20 years of experience by 2000 started bailing from the field by 2002. Not because they didn’t keep up with the continuing, daily, education required in the field. They did. But because they were so frustrated with a fickle market of overpaid morons controlling their profession. Only a handful of IT pro’s I’ve known for over 30 years remain in the field. That’s only because they’re great at what they do, but are not innately innovative. The vast majority (like 90%) just threw up their hands and either retired, changed professions, or started their own business outside of the IT realm.

    Technology is and has been, historically, the one thing that the United States has, undisputed, unequivocally, excelled beyond any other nation on the planet. Now, due to greed and stupidity, corporate America, and government, are destroying that too. Which has led me to the conclusion that the bastardizing of Information Technology, and the use of immigrants in the technology infrastructure, is really becoming a national security issue.

    It should be treated as such.

  52. BY Wallace Underwood says:

    I have some advice for employers. I’m a draftsman graduated from the best autocad school around.
    Now, I learned almost nothing in class. I did drafting for 7 years for a small company and learned more then I did in school. The 76yr old man I worked with never had one class and was the best. Sometimes your passing up the best because of no degree

  53. BY TheOleCollegeTry says:

    The issue of undocumented workers is not going to be resolved easily or will not get resolved properly especially when our college education system has such approval of their illegal status. Yes, our United States is totally sold to allowing future work to be outsourced from the inside as Representatives believe that the undocumented accept many positions that are unskilled and that few Americans would not consider for employment. That is exactly their structured belief. However, IT and other professional fields and/or trades have become inevitably infiltrated due to acceptance. The very same undocumented worker has now surpassed many of us in economic order as too the acceptance of lower wages.

  54. BY SteveK says:

    Last night my inbox was swamped with emails on the IT job crunch. Surprisingly, there were a couple with the standard Horatio Alger nonsense that if we just worked harder and seized our opportunities, we would come out all right. So stop complaining.

    My impression of the comments so far is that most of the people commenting have put in the 50-60 hour work weeks as a matter of course, pulled long on-call issues, studied tech manuals instead of spending time with their family and done everything that corporate America has said they had to do to be successful. Then they trained a couple of H1B’s and found out that they were their replacement. Welcome to the new American Dream. So yes, there is a legitimate paranoia about the ‘immigrants’ coming to take our jobs.

    When my turn came, it felt different than previous job searches. I adapted, studied and used a lot of skills I had learned to get the interviews. I figured out how to keep my grey hair out of the mix until we were into meaningful interviews. But as someone pointed out in one of these threads, the interviews have turned into a Jeopardy contest, with ever escalating questions that make it hard to remember all the acronyms and styles out there in the work place. I’m good, but the target they were looking for, walked on water. Not only did I have to administer the DB and all the ways to design it, I had to know all the esoteric types of software that were used to access it and how to administer them as well. You began to suspect that the game was rigged. But that is something someone who believes in conspiracy theories would say. So you go back to the drawing board and try to figure out what you are doing wrong. I’m an IT guy, that is what we do, figure out the problem and fix it.

    Now to put this in perspective, my daughter, who teaches, was let go in budget crunch and spent time getting a new position. She filled in as substitute and finally found a position after two years. During that time I learned that school districts are letting teachers go as they come up for tenure. The average teacher experience level is now 3-7 years. That will really help us compete with the world.

    If you are paying attention, there are few career paths left. Healthcare is starting to see trained staff replaced by technically trained assistants, rather than college trained. Anyone who is technically trained is being replaced by machines or cheaper, partially trained, drones. If you have a union job, you are under attack from every direction.

    So are you paranoid? No, they are coming to get you. If not now, shortly.

    Yesterday, the senate tried to get unemployment benefits extended and failed. It masked another story about how the Koch brothers have built up super PACS that have been spending enormous amounts of money to unseat Democrats in the Senate. The last year has seen them spending millions in the districts of Democrats to insure a Republican Senate to match the Republican House. The spending is outrageous, and there isn’t enough money to counter these ads. I live in a district that was targeting in 2010. I used to joke that I was asked to believe 6 impossible things before breakfast, because I would be inundated by as many attack ads each morning by a group that no one to this day can tell you who sponsored those ads. They replaced the congressman with their Republican. In view of the last 14 years, where do you think that is going to put us lazy 47%. after 2014.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, my colleagues, we better stop lamenting what is happening and start figuring out what to do next. It is good to share war stories, because we get to see that we are not in this alone and that we are not the failures that they are trying to make us.

    There are no Horatio Alger solutions out there. Very few people are climbing up the ladder any more. Small businesses are under attack as more and more of us lose our ability to support them. The middle class has been under attack and we have allowed ourselves to buy into the class warfare nonsense. We are under attack by a very determined group of people who have been planning this since the 70′s. Individually, we are doomed. They will pick us off, one by one.

    So do we go quietly into the night, or do we use our skills to figure out how to fix it?

    • BY bluemountain184 says:

      As a young white guy in hardware design field, what has happened in hardware seems to happening in software as you have described it eloquently.
      The job descriptions I see on Dice, LinkedIn, etc. are demanding experience in more and more highly complicated technologies, and frankly, I doubt most hardware engineers out there can really qualify for the jobs I see on Dice, LinkedIn, etc.
      I recently had a chance to talk to one mid-to-senior level employee of a major FPGA (a type of hardware device) vendor.
      I asked him some design issues on one area I am working on because I thought he knew how to design it.
      This person was an author of an application note for a generation older technology in that area.
      When I asked him about how to implement this hardware he said, “I don’t know how to implement that block. I used a hardware someone at the company designed for me.”
      Of course, I was surprised of this response since I expected him to know something about it.
      When I discussed the crazy JD I see on the major job websites, he did admit that he may not indeed qualify for many of them.
      I don’t consider myself a “xenophobe” or anything like that, but when I go to interviews in major hardware companies, all I see inside are either east Asian or south Asian immigrants doing engineering work.
      As a young white guy “still” in hardware engineering, I wonder if there is a conspiracy by the Top 1% executives that seek to eliminate American citizens from doing high-tech engineering work.
      Based on this experience, I will like to see major curtailing of “economic” immigration programs like H-1B visas.
      I don’t personally mind non-economic immigration programs (i.e., family reunion), but I believe H-1B visa is used as a default economic immigration program (Yes, H-1B is supposedly a non-immigrant visa, but it is not utilized in such a manner in Silicon Valley. Literally, corporations around here are using this as a “golden carrot,” especially for Indian nationals from what I see.).

    • BY THEOLECOLLEGETRY says:

      Where do we begin to fix? What is the strategy?

      • BY SteveK says:

        First, forget any chance of doing this alone. We live in a society for the benefits that it provides, these corporations and their investors know all about bread and circuses – but they have come up with a new low – no bread, just technological circuses to entertain us while they steal the country. We also have to change a lot of thinking. I remember one DBA I met at a Microsoft roll-out. I was in healthcare insurance, so he asked how we were going to deal with the ACA. I told him that we were already working to turn it to our advantage. There was money to be made if we did it right. He stated that he hated having to pay for someone else and he was sure that this was what was going to happen. I pointed out that he already was paying for someone else with his insurance rates (that is what insurance does – it spreads the risk). But also those who couldn’t afford insurance used the emergency rooms, and let me assure you, any costs that are incurred that are not paid for – are passed on in hospital rates. I remember sitting in meetings with hospital A/R managers – who insisted someone had to pay, even though they had contracted with an HMO, to provide services at a fixed cost. There is your skyrocketing costs.

        We have to realize that we are in this together. We are part of society, insurance, towns and villages for our mutual benefit. I remember when insurance companies were mutual companies. Now we are being told that we are here for the benefit of the 1%,

        Second, we have to organize. Collectively, we might have a chance. Koch, DeVos and the others have made it quite plain that they are going to take it all. So political parties are not an avenue that can be used. It might be possible to win a few battles, but in the long run, the money will win. North Carolina was bought and paid for by these boys. Michigan and Wisconsin are on their way. The target states are Ohio and Pennsylvania. When they get them, they have it. They’ll have the electoral votes to get the presidency and the states will be nibbled up one by one as they target anyone who gets in their way.

        We need an organization that can build enough power to push back. Unions are fighting for their lives, so you have to avoid the union path. The organizations that have been fighting the Walmart and fast food fight have found themselves being accused of being a union by the corporations. The purpose is simple, they have enough mechanisms in place to defang the groups if they are classified as a union.
        A professional organization, dedicated to eliminating the H1B visa and creating fair working conditions for IT workers. To provide support for candidates who are for workers and the middle class.

        Soros used fax machines to help undue the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe. Then he started supporting groups that educated the young people in those countries. It worked.

        With the amount of technical knowledge available, IT should be able to organize and build something that might save us. Or it could be too late.

        • BY sf95070 says:

          Speaking of defanged organizations, we already have IEEE, PMI, ASQ and all the other professional organizations. They all should be advocating for paying professionals, both US and the rest of the world, fair compensation. Somehow, that doesn’t seem to be on any agenda.

          I guess my suggestion would be for membership to demand of our elected leadership in these organizations that they make this a priority. The real problem is that while organizations like PMI have convinced corporate America that only those with a PMP can manage a project, they are not remotely prepared to advocate to their membership that we all stay home until we get better work terms. Keep in mind that PMI and these other organizations are global, so a planned day off would apply to offshore and H1B workers as well as US and could actually be effective.

          Unfortunately the reality seems to be that professionals in these disciplines tend to be an independent bunch and are the least likely to ever do anything as a group. It is unfortunate that management uses this against us.

          • BY SteveK says:

            Most of the professional organizations are only out to secure their corner of the pie. And Koch and their allies are happy to keep it that way. In the 90′s there was a push for licensing, but that came to naught. Everyone was looking to secure their little corner of the world, myself included.

            So unless we reinvent the wheel, we better figure out what the new king wants for us, other than to die out. I just can’t figure out what they want to achieve. By cutting our bread, we can’t buy their products and they eventually will not have markets. They won’t be able to suck all the life out of the government like they have been doing, since there will be no middle class to pay taxes.

            The Chinese and the Indians have their own games. Very shortly, they won’t need us.

            What is their game? Do they mean to bring back slavery? Using serve or starve?

            They have studied the French Revolution haven’t they? They are creating the exact same conditions that resulted in the storming of the Bastille. One hiccup in the food supply and things could get very ugly.

          • BY Don King says:

            Certifications are just another means of Non-IT outsiders just sucking money from true IT professionals. They’re just another marketing tool for buzzword matchers who are good marketers. My colleagues and I, who’ve been in the field 20 years or more (40 years for myself) built the technologies these “certifications” are based on. As usual, the morons (marketing buzzword matchers) try to take a cookie cutter approach to IT and management of projects, when most of the time, projects have to be custom. The states,, and Congress have been trying to do it since the late 70′s – early 80′s. Ultimately, they have found that technology changes so fast, there is no scalar that can be used as a gauge. No can any approach to an IT objective (project) apply the same methodologies. Particularly when either engineering, or building, new technologies.

            Success is the only metric that needs to be relied upon.

  55. BY bluemountain184 says:

    Several comments made on this thread is indeed the experience I have had.
    They do call people in Silicon Valley for a hardware position in San Diego, CA, Austin, TX or Raleigh, NC (Qualcomm), and I need to waste my cell phone minutes for these useless calls . . .
    In order to not deal with those Indian recruiters calling people randomly, I eliminated my cell phone number from my resume or contact information on Dice, and my cell phone call volume dropped by 90%.
    Yes, many Indian recruiters are sometimes inaudible due to their accent, and many of them talk too fast despite their accent.
    Indian people can “speak” English is really a myth, in my opinion.
    It was my east Asian immigrant friend (Note: He did not immigrate with H-1B or via graduate school like Indians. He is now a U.S. citizen, so his job situation was very similar to mine until recently.) who is the first person around me to say this, and I am not shocked that many people here had the same experience.

  56. BY bluemountain184 says:

    Just to let people know this, but I recently obtained a letter of income verification for one Indian foreign graduate student studying at a public university in Silicon Valley.
    It said that the parent of this person had to guarantee $30,000 in order to let their daughter study at this university.
    There was a bank in India certifying that this person has $30,000 in cash in the bank account, and her father personally guarantees the tuition and living expenses.
    Seriously, considering the low savings rate in this country, how many households have $30,000 in cash to risk?
    Please note that this is not some visa mill like Tri-Valley University.
    This is an accredited public university in Silicon Valley.
    To me, these public institutions are selling visas for money.
    Of course, these Indian graduate students get the lucrative internships over undergraduate students (i.e., U.S. citizens).

  57. BY vetwithITdegreeandstillnoITjob says:

    I have read most of these post and agreed with all the ones I read. The problem is we need to boycott the companies that are using the H1B workers. One of those companies it’s here in Kansas city, MO. They hire the H1B’s, give them rental cars (which is where I come in, and why I know). I’m not sure if I can post the companies name here right now, but if asked I couldshareprprivately though.

  58. BY John says:

    The only disconnect is that employers want to spend $7/HR on IT, not pay $55/HR let alone the $160-$250/HR rates they should be paying for the highly skilled technology professionals that really make it all happen.

    This whole thing has always been a big game. My job is offshoring IT jobs so Fortune 500 CIO’s can save money and drive margins. I see this game everyday.

    Of course we tell everyone that there is a talent shortage. Of course it is a huge steamy pile of crap. Obviously what I’m saying is that I can’t find a US worker that is willing to relocate to San Francisco for a six month J2EE developer position at $48/HR with no benefits or relocation which effectively means work for free or at a loss since rent there is $3800 a month. They should be getting five times that amount plus expenses.

    So instead I use handlers which make sure my indentured servant sits in the seat and bills as many hours as possible for me. Most of my guys can barely even pick-up a check and when they do they sent the money back to India. Then you kick back some of that to my PAC to keep the politicians in check since they are the ones that let everyone operate. As labor laws are not really enforced in the US, wage theft (not paying overtime, non-solicit agreements, H1B’s) is business as usual in IT today.

    Employers all make a big #$% deal about making a six figure salary. Whooptie Doo!!! Most IT professionals should be making 160K – 200K base salary today. $50/HR or a 100K salary will land you in living paycheck to paycheck in most US cities.

  59. BY Linda Reliford says:

    I agree about the lack of jobs in IT. I continue getting certifications to stay competitive. I have been workiing 68+ hours a week, 7 days for 50+ days in a row. Why? I have a mortgage.

    The HB1 workers that I knoe are very nice people – smart but in a different way. Don’t rock the boar – no questions, no thinking outside the box, no disagreeing with anyone. While that is all well and good, it does not engage the workers in the actual job. They can process but any analytical thinking is put on the back burner. This is NOT a stereotype – just observations and results of conversations with friends from India. The difference in the schooling is amazing.

    • BY Don King says:

      Indians, Chinese, and Japanese, all have the same type of learning. By rote. Their culture discourages “thinking outside the box”. The Japanese were the first to admit it, back in the 80′s and even went so far as to establish a pilot curriculum from elementary school through high school, for exactly that purpose. Teaching methods that foster independent thinking and creativity. It ran for 10 years, and failed miserably. They fund it was one thing to try to teach “thinking outside of the box”, then for the student to try to live the same way. Didn’t work because of their culture. At home and among their peers they were chastised as being rude, disrespectful of their elders, and arrogant for even considering such. Outside the classroom, many were punished.

      That is why you observe the lack of analytics relative to the Indians. Same problem/issue. Being a pro in IT requires creativity and open thought, as well as scientific prowess. An environment that is unique to America. I’ve observed the same as you over the years.

  60. BY Computer Science Grad says:

    Employers Say This is Why You’re Not Getting Hired‏…LOL!
    1. What are the “right” skills?
    2. How do job seekers keep up on the shifts in IT?
    3. So if a person has “significant experience” in java, the cloud, big data, and/or mobile which is in high demand what would be that person’s reason for being unemployed?

    The statement, “Plus, employers want experience” says it best. Companies are ONLY searching for people with “experience”. If a person is fresh out of college with a BS or MS they had better have a relative in the company waiting for them to graduate, because in many cases that is the only way they will get hired. Classroom experience is not good enough for some companies lying about not being able to find employees with the “right skills”. There are not enough practicum, internship, and apprenticeship programs for the thousands of undergraduate and graduate students earning a degree.

    Remember graduates, it’s not the employers fault you’re not getting hired, it is YOUR FAULT you are not getting hired after you have paid your last dollar and created thousands of dollars of debt borrowing money to earn your degree in a field that is only looking for “experience”. LOL!! Gotta Love It.

  61. BY Techs Face IT says:

    I’m glad I found this article. Reading all of the comments tells me that I’m not alone.

    January 5th 2014 marked the fifth year of my being downsized from my I.T. job. During this period finding employment has been unsuccessful. I have applied for hundreds of jobs and have been on several interviews, mostly as of late, and found many of the comments here are true.

    Now that I have I.T. experience on my resume, I’m wondering will I even be able to get employment say in a warehouse without seeming overqualified. I have to do something while I wait for the right cards are pulled and the wind to blow in the right direction. It’s a double edged sword for me.

    I think this will continue as long as we allow it as a whole. This is a topic that should continue to be discussed by all who is being affected.

    • BY Don King says:

      How can we stop it? Only thing I can think of is Congressional action. They’re the ones that establish the yearly quotas for the immigrants. The only thing companies are looking at is price, because they don’t understand anything about what we do in IT. Then when they see a cheap import, they wonder why we Americans cost so much. Because in their limited mentality, as long as the buzzwords match up they (cheap imports) must be the same. It’s the age old standard manufacturing/assembly line mentality. Outside of the technology sector itself, people are too stupid to understand what we do, or what it takes to create, or apply, technology for business purposes to produce revenues, cut costs, or advance new industries and markets.

      The problems are further exacerbated by the moron buzzword matchers in the HR (Human Retard) division/unit of a company’s organization. What makes it even worse is the immigrant is victimized too, as they become indentured servants without even realizing it, until they are here. By then it’s too late. That sets a precedence on market pricing, and from there it just has snowballed. For the immigrant, they think the peanuts they’re being paid is big bucks, because they don’t know the relative costs of living in the US. Then when they get here, they quickly realize they’ve been screwed, but, there’s nothing they can do about it for a period of 3 years, or they’ll be deported, and not allowed to come back to the US for a period of 10 years.

      So, you see, it’s a rotten deal all the way around, except for the immigrant flesh peddlers.

  62. BY Bunch Of Bull says:

    “Employers who need skilled IT professionals say they can’t find people to fill their open jobs.”

    So, they hire the H1B Visa people to do their work … then have me (30+ years experience) come in and Fix It.

    When will these companies learn ?

    • BY Don King says:

      I’m beginning to think of a two pronged approach.

      One being an opt-in survey of US IT professionals that are unemployed, and have been unemployed for 3 months or more. The results to be published in all IT professional journals (Dice, Computerworld, CIO, etc.), major news publications (WSJ, NYT, LA Times, etc.), and sent to every member of Congress. Hopefully, and I expect it will, this will show a more accurate picture of the true unemployment rates of US IT professionals. The numbers being presented to the public, and to Congress since the 80′s, are a fraud. The bottom line is that companies don’t understand technology, don’t understand IT as a profession, more so than doctors, lawyers, accountants, and some engineers (most don’t even understand what an engineer is), and they don’t understand why we cost so much. They think we “work on” or “repair” computers. We’re “technicians”, like a TV repairmen. I’m serious. This is how stupid they are. They figure, rightfully so, they can get an H1B import, cheaper. The whole thing is a fraud.

      The second prong of the approach is for us, US IT professionals, to refuse to touch, clean up, redo, or otherwise repair, change, or fix, anything that was done by a non American IT “person”. The H1B’s are not professionals in IT by any stretch of the imagination. This same thing was done in England in the 1970′s. It brought the country to it’s knees enough to declare a national emergency inside of two weeks. So, it does work. In essence it would be a stop work, or national “IT flu” (so to speak), that the only “cure” would be the immediate repeal of the H1B laws, visas, and quotas, relative to IT. The H1B’s currently in the country would be given a period of time, say 6 months, to go back to where they came from.

      • BY BUNCH OF BULL says:

        “US IT professionals, to refuse to touch, clean up, redo, or otherwise repair, change, or fix, anything that was done by a non American IT “person”. ”

        Problem is … there are too many people looking for work to do … and our politicians are allowing more H1B Visa people to come in.

        “The Senate’s comprehensive reform bill includes provisions that would increase the number of H-1B visas to between 115,000 to 180,000 per year.”

        • BY Don King says:

          But that is the problem. All Congress ever hears is the fraudulent “shortage” of IT pro’s. They never hear the truth. Which exacerbates the problem. Letters, email, requests, testimony and any other form of communications to members of Congress all whine about the same thing. Usually coming from headhunters, IT import contracting companies/flesh peddlers, and some big players, such as IBM, Microsoft, and a few others. They never hear the truth from the other side. To make matters worse, the content of their claims usually reflects numbers of their own unfilled IT “positions” and how long they have remained unfilled, which THEY’RE IN CONTROL OF. They never reflect how many applications they’ve received, how many rejected, or interviewed. There isn’t even any verification whether or not the jobs are real, or just made up. They pull numbers out of the air, and that’s all Congress ever hears.

          On top of that, the politicians, with the exception of very few that you could count on one hand, don’t have a clue what “IT” is about (as I said before). I found this out first hand back in ’85 after giving testimony before the CA legislature regarding a proposed measure for the state that sought to kill independent IT contractors. The committee chair, after hearing testimony from about 6 of us stated their appreciation for the insight, etc., because “We thought we were talking about pimply faced kids in a Radio Shack store.”. Direct quote. The bill was killed in committee. The following year the same measure got enacted into federal law (revenue and taxation code section 1706), illegally. That’s a whole different story. The point is, it hasn’t changed. Without any input from the other side, this is all they have to go on.

          While I certainly recognize that everyone is busy trying to find work, it’s not every available minute. What would it take for any one of us (American IT pros) to draft an email addressed to Congress critters simply stating how long you’ve been out of work, years of experience, and particularly if you lost your job as a result of being replaced by a cheaper H1B. How long would it take? 30 minutes, max? Then send the email to every member of Congress (pre prepared email list). Get 1 million or more, which should be pretty easy, shotgunned/sent to Congress, and they’ll definitely take notice! Numbers they understand (particularly if there is a $ sign in front of the numbers).

          Another approach I just thought of would be a petition to the President, by American IT pro’s, asking for him to veto any IT H1B legislation. I think the site is change.org, or petition.org, something like that. Anything over 100,000 signatories, the President must respond, per the WH’s own rules. Might even include a slant regarding national security, which is partially true. That would definitely get attention.

          Perhaps do both. If nothing is done to stop it, the problem is only going to get worse. As it has every year for the past 20 years.

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