Hewlett-Packard Won’t Cut Any Jobs in India

Meg WhitemanHewlett-Packard CEO Meg Whitman told workers in India that their jobs are safe despite the company’s ongoing restructuring.

In May, HP announced plans to eliminate 27,000 positions over the next two years, about 9,000 of them in the U.S. Reports at the time said the company had a goal of 5,000 people accepting its retirement offer. Now, the AP says response to that offer has been better than expected.

In an interview with Economic Times, Whitman said:

We are not reducing our workforce in India. We have announced a global work force reduction, but India will stay largely intact, because we not only have all our business units here, but also our R&D and back office. We are focused on keeping our work force here, and I think over time, probably increase the work force.

About 30,000 of the company’s 349,600 workers are in India and it’s among the emerging markets on which the company is focused. Some 65 percent of its revenue is generated in emerging markets.

Meanwhile, HP’s Michigan training program, which was announced in May, still has the green light, despite the layoffs elsewhere. The program will to train more than 200 developers, testers and architects at HP Enterprise Services Pontiac.

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Comments

  1. BY John Parker says:

    They need to start taxing companies like HP who outsource labor…

  2. BY waynemolina says:

    What makes the employees in India better than their US counterparts? Let’s lay off thousands of AMERICAN workers but tell the foreigners that their jobs are safe?!

    • BY SouthRoad says:

      Don’t buy HP products, and if you are a decision maker in a corporation, don’t buy from them. That is the best you can do.

  3. BY waynemolina says:

    And what about their AMERICAN workers? I’m sure there will be major cuts there… what makes these foreign workers more valuable? Utter nonsense. This is an AMERICAN company, laying off AMERICAN workers yet keeping foreign workers untouched presumably because they pay them much less. And to top it all off I guarantee HP will talk about how it can’t find qualified workers.

    • BY sdfsf says:

      MONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!!

    • BY Adam Younsi says:

      It’s all about profits baby .. and low wages and where they can sell more .. they care less about you being an American

  4. BY Bob Smith says:

    And everyone wonders why college students are turning away from high tech degree programs. Why spend all that money to find out on graduation day that the only available jobs are halfway around the world. At the rate we’re going, the only IT jobs left in America in 20 years will be at the Federal government, since they have laws about being a U.S. citizen. Everywhere else, forget it. Even state governments are now outsourcing IT jobs to Asia. Elected officials intentionally chopping American jobs in favor of cheaper labor overseas. What the hell is wrong with America?

    • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

      —-”” Even state governments are now outsourcing IT jobs to Asia. Elected officials intentionally chopping American jobs in favor of cheaper labor overseas. What the hell is wrong with America? “”—-
      Good Comment
      Mr. Bob Smith
      Totally truth

    • BY Adam says:

      The cost of living is way less in India therefore Indians can survive with low wages
      have you noticed lately everything is getting expensive from food to gas etc and the wages remains stagnant , if you are lucky to get one of the low wages to just survive American dream LOL

      • BY BrianBoru says:

        Why are both parties so in love with rewarding outsourcing and allowing H1B to grow and grow? I am in the room when hearing the shortage of workers, but then when we post for a mid level job, we get 300 applicants, so the facts are not lining up.

        Someone must have a heck of a powerpoint somewhere.
        It would be OK if the door swung both ways with these countries, but it does not.

        GE has outsourced over 50,000 jobs, but yet does not pay any income taxes. Kudo’s for having great tax lawyers, but it seems like a little Homeland financial security for their own citizens should be rewarded.

  5. I want to hear from Meg’s lips her justification for canning 9000 American jobs. I agree with Mr. Parker, tax them and tax them big for going offshore. Stop buying HP products, write your senator and congressman and raise a stink. This is such a huge American tragedy…will Meg be smiling when her job is outsourced? Why doesn’t this rape of the American workforce make network news?

    • BY give more tax break to HP for trickle down says:

      yes, does HP wants US business or Indian business??? Let them take the business to India, but if they want to seel single HP machine in US tax them 300%.

  6. BY webknight18 says:

    Maybe i am reading this wrong, but it seems like HP actually gave a retirement offer to those employees. (I’m not saying that is a good thing). Also, unlike other companies that outsource work, HP actually does a lot of business in India. It’s one of their biggest markets, and they sell lot of products there. So, it would seem natural that since they have more business there, they would keep more employees there.

    This would the same with other multinational companies like Dell, Coca Cola, etc.

    Maybe you should stop getting enraged over every article you read on the internet.

    • BY Christian A. Jensen says:

      HP probably had to move their products to markets outside the US, their quality has gone down so far that many IT organizations have moved to other product manufactures. Personally, the last three HP products I had didn’t even last a year.

      • BY webknight18 says:

        What do u mean they had to? I don’t think u understood what i was saying. Companies expand, not because they had to, but because they want to get more customers. Most IT organizations use HP or Dell, and both of them have branches in other countries.

    • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

      I’m sorry webknight18…
      I’m totally DISAGREE with your comments…
      because… It doesn’t matter the products are selling overseas…. good for the companies cause they get more money… but, when the WORKERS who made those products are in the overseas…, and the products are overseas too…, then..!!! what happen with the workers of the companies from the same country ???… WE ARE ALL UNEMPLOYED
      It Is NOT GOOD decision to give retirements at the workers who were CREATED those companies since the begin… because they DON’T CARE about the future of their families…. Where is the JOBS to the sons and grandsons of the founders of those companies…???

  7. BY Get the jobs back to America says:

    This is a crime against American people. Millions of Americans are unemployed and what we have? Creating even more unemployed American? So patriotic!!! Government has to stop outsourcing until the unemployment problem is resolved. This is not any longer a companies’ politic, this is a national tragedy and has to be resolved by USA government. Not bridges and tunnels jobs but IT, where jobs are real and getting shipped overseas. STOP THIS ASAP!!!! GET THE JOBS BACK TO AMERICA!!!!

    • BY give more tax break to HP for trickle down says:

      Meg Whitman ran for a congressional office as a GOP candidate. Thease are the people asking for more TAX broke for the coporation and for themselve while proposing to eliminate Social Security and Medicare. These greedy people don’t care about their country. Look at the other joker Romney who did the same thing. He doesn’t like to pay taxes to his country.

    • BY webknight18 says:

      And u think those millions of jobs were lost in IT? Don’t be ridiculous. Most of the jobs lost were in manufacturing, and also due to automation. IT is just a lightning rod that people like to play with. The no of jobs lost in IT is not that huge, but it makes for good headlines, and gets more clicks.

      • BY J. Smith says:

        I believe it is commonly known that over a million engineering jobs have been lost to outsourcing and many many college grads coming out of school do not have jobs available to them. How they count these people I do not know.

        Ever been to Seattle/Bellevue? Indians by the thousands.. these could be Americans instead.

        Ever worked with them? They don’t know what kleenexes are blowing their noses in the sinks and hocking up greenies like they have not been raised properly. Any place I work at with a large number of Indians have to lock up the coffee and tea as they steal it.

  8. BY mark says:

    Because Indians are all geniuses, don’t you know? Despite the fact that they are one of the few countries in the entire world that still have polio and 80% are completely illiterate. And most don’t speak English well or get beyond 4th grade and they can’t keep their power grid on line. But HP thinks they are all geniuses in India. What a company.

    • BY Rednek says:

      you mean to say in US there were no power grid failures!!! Do you know the drop out rate of high school students in US?

    • BY webknight18 says:

      Now you are just being racist. Maybe u should think before shooting your mouth off. Stop pulling stats out of your ass. If u think HP is bad, then boycott the company and do not buy any of their products.

    • BY ddtech says:

      It is amazing to see how many uninformed people there are here, posting drivel. simply amazing…”beyond the 4th grade / 80% completely illiterate”? You try and get people vaccinated out there in the bush- without being taken hostage by the Maoists. See how long you will last. You sound like you have been hanging out in one of many uneducated sections (of India) lately. What about the rest of the country that maintains solidly educated masses and live in high-rises or proper homes? Totally baseless conjecture… Go down to the southern part of our country and you will defnitely see poverty and unemployment. Except that here (the US), people resort to violence and crime on a much broader level. At least in the third world, governments try and make a minimal effort to take care of their people despite the sad amount of corruption that exists. Again, the post by the OP is “non-news”.

    • BY Indian in us says:

      @mark ; it really shows how ignorant you are, whoever said 80% illiterate , wake up and understand the global situation

    • BY Ashish says:

      Indian’s are geniuses – don’t you know ? We taught the world to count in the decimal number system. Ayurveda will soon replace modern medicine and lessons from Indian organic farming is coming back. That said, we the British robbed us for centuries and hence the poverty – now grow up and compete in the world market or scale back capitalism and globalization.

      • BY Outsourced Sam says:

        Actually every major technological advance has come out of the USA not India. Apple, Google, Microsoft, laptops, smartphones, PC, wireless, internet, oh heck I don’t know where to even stop. The list is endless and the amount of skill in the USA is second to know. It is NOT EVEN CLOSE.

        Isn’t the (D) Senate being racist with the claim that ‘Indians are more skilled’. That’s as racists and ignorant as saying all blacks can run fast or all whites make good quarterbacks.

    • BY Indian says:

      Mr Mark.

      Huh! What do I say about your ignorance. Let me first discuss about the facts mentioned by you and then write about the topic relevant to the published news.

      Well, Polio in India? This shows that a person like you who speaks bad about other countries and seem like an IT guy doesn’t even know to make proper use of a search engine to see if Polio still exists in India. Let me help the poor you. ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25708715 ). Kindly take some time of your supposedly busy schedule to read this article and find out when was the last case of Polio reported in India.

      Coming to literacy rate. Again, let me help you a bit. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India ). Read the first sentence in the article which gives you the literacy rate in India as of 2011 which is exactly one year before you wrote your degradatory comment on India. Seems like you’ve serious issues with your understanding or reading capabilities which made you say 80% are illiterate which should have been 70.04% literate!

      Now coming to something interesting out of your series of issues with Indians. Yes, most of us don’t speak English well. Do you know the reason or at least dare to find out? I’m sure that you’re a total illiterate on this topic. English is a borrowed language for us Indians. It was the British who left back English in 1947 for us Indians to dwell upon and raise it on our own. We never had native English speakers from the US or UK to teach us English. We, learnt and thought ourselves the same to keep in pace with the English speaking mass of the World. One should probably appreciate our efforts in this regard but not condemn it. Let me highlight the main point. How many languages do you know? One or is it two? Every person in India speaks AT LEAST three languages other than English. Hindi which is the National language, a state language like Kannada, Gujarati, Bengali etc depending on the state to which he belongs and lastly his mother tongue which can be Tulu, Urdu, Konkani etc. Are you or most of the people condemning about Indians and their English skills capable of that? I guess NOT!

      The last sentence of your comment says, “But HP thinks they are all geniuses in India.” Yes. HP thinks right, unlike you. I read in one of the comments where the person says, USA has Apple, Google, founded the Internet, Routers and the list is endless. The basis of Computer Science, the Binary system uses 0s and 1s. Kindly can anyone tell me, who proposed the concept of “0″ when the whole World was struggling with numbers from 1 to 9? It is none other than an Indian, Aryabhata. Again, help yourselves by reading about Aryabhata ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryabhata ). He was the person who approximated the value of Pi 2000 years before the French proved it! No doubts why your forefathers in America acclaimed and lauded the speech of Swami Vivekananda in The Parliament of the World’s Religions on 11 September 1893 at the Art Institute of Chicago as part of the World’s Columbian Exposition. It was only because they were not as illiterate and narrow minded and racist as you’re today. It was because of Swami Vivekananda you the citizens of a developed nation know what Yoga and meditation is today. This is just a few things which I wanted to state that proves we Indians are geniuses indeed!

      Now generalizing and answering the aspects which most of my fellow writers here have posted condemning the way Indians behave or socialize in or out of the workplace. Mr J Smith said something about kleenexes and Indians hocking up greenies and Indians stealing coffee and tea at his workplace. All I could say for this is a big LOL. It might be true that you saw some Indian blowing his nose in the sink. But generalizing that all Indians are the same is like me saying, I’m afraid to send my children to schools in your country because I fear some random guy might come in and just shoot all the people there and finally kill himself. It would be a mock at myself if I would ever say that. If some person does that, doesn’t mean every other person of that ethnicity would do that. Grow up Sir. Or, how would it be if I just make fun of you Americans if I see some American here in India roaming the streets with a beer bottle in hand and thereby say you’re all drunkards! Its the way in which we’re brought up. Drinking beer openly might be OK in your culture but is a taboo here. Likely a person blowing his nose in the sink might be common here which you seldom see in your country. Summary being, quit the thought of generalizing the acts of one person as that of the entire community or a Country.

      Lastly coming to the topic of the news which I thought would carry importance and be a subject of debate among a group of well educated people hailing from developed countries. Surprisingly which hasn’t shown up much here like the derogatory, vulgar comments about India and Indians which is in good number. Remember what Herbert Spencer had quoted, “survival of the fittest”. The World yesterday, today and even tomorrow would be solely be running on this theory alone. What if the person in a race runs faster than you? Either try running faster than him or just accept defeat which most of the human beings wouldn’t like doing. So they end up trying to run faster than the other person and win the race the next day. What happens in a bid? The bid is awarded to the person who does the job for the lowest price. That must answer everything. Money has no blood relation. If person A has 10 bucks and wants to buy a certain candy which is sold by his cousin for 10 bucks each and by a stranger for 5 bucks each, he’d definitely buy it from a stranger and enjoy two candies for the same price. That is the logic here. Indian companies do the job for a lower price, so the job is awarded to them. Others have two options in this case. Either quote a lesser price or get out of the race. Simple.

      Can someone tell me where are your Apple products assembled? Samsung TVs at your homes manufactured or even may be that Adidas or Rbk shoe you wear comes from? Its China. Why don’t one see people complaining about that and saying we should boycott those products. Its something that our people would’ve worked on and made a living. These above mentioned products also land in India from China. People here won’t whine about that only because we’re not capable of manufacturing at that less cost of labor. It shows our incompetence.

      The same thing applies to IT as well. So, outsourcing doesn’t mean somebody is stealing somebody else’s job. It just means somebody is capable of doing the same work at a lower price which in turn is profitable to the employer.

  9. BY Boston says:

    As an Indian American, I feel that strange when I see news like this… US companies must take care of their “own” backyard before maintaining their neighbor’s. If companies are moving all jobs overseas then what happens to the ever growing middle class. I think the government must step in and tax companies moving jobs overseas.

  10. BY LMM says:

    My job at Nortel was outsourced to India. The company went bankrupt within 2 years. Let’s see how this one plays out. John Roth sure had his golden parachute ready. I suspect Meg does too.

  11. BY Bob says:

    So what’s new? All companies have done this and continue to do so. Pretty soon we will all work at Walmart. We are quickly becoming the “land of consumers”

  12. BY J. Smith says:

    We need a new political party that will put a stop to this. I am now out of work, a software engineer, and I hate these people.

    We need to boycott the products that these companies produce.

    And what is also galling is, to find a contract here in the states most recruiters are Indians. I can’t understand them! Why should I have to work with a non U.S. Citizen for a U.S. job?

    There are two flavors of out outsourcing.. one the jobs are moved to that 3rd world ghetto called India. The 2nd is they are brought over here to steal our jobs.

    Tar and Feather them. If it comes down to survival in my own country.. I am going to prevail.

    • BY ddtech says:

      What is so galling about speaking to the Indians, especially if you don’t understand them? Work with it. They are trying to do a job that other Americans wouldn’t take because it’s too demeaning, not-enough-pay or there aren’t enough ‘Mericans to go around in the first place. Get with the program and have some patience. We are not alone in this world and there will always be people who struggle with the language but try to improve in order to survive. Are you doing this? Arrogant people like you don’t make it easy- especially when those “Indians” that you speak of are trying to find YOU a job.

      What about when India outsources to China? Our jobs have not moved to India, the companies that are hiring are trying to make a profit and finding people over there who can be technically superior and cheaper in certain ways. You are being out-gunned and you are complaining about it.. Hilarious. It is a world economy and you are forgetting that? The ghetto that you call India is a developing country that has been around ten centuries longer than this johnny-come-lately. Sure life might be better because you can get stuff at Walmart at a good price, and you don’t have to worry about power-cuts and people ripping you off with expired goods at the grocery store. But have you even been to South Asia to see that it is not all what movies, TV and the Internet make it up to be? Probably not. As far as the Indians “stealing our jobs” sounds like someone is whining about not having a competitive CV or acumen. Hold on, let me get a tissue for you, Mr. Xenophobe.

      Oh boy, I hope you do prevail. Just make sure you toss the rest of the tea overboard. We are in the 21st century now and in an Internet age- time to wake up and smell the PCB (printed circuit board). I am going quit listening to you whine about how HP is failing so bad to get back to my job search, thank you very much.

      • BY Outsourced Sam says:

        Cheaper yes. Technically superior? That is simply an ignorant baseless statement.

        • BY Paul C says:

          I work in IT Sourcing and Procurement and have to say that there is no stopping o the continued outsourcing to HP and IBM who then have Indian IT workers do the work for coolie wages back in India. The language skills, especially the accents of the Indian workers are, in many cases, HORRIBLE.

          This is ALL about saving money and God help the American IT workers or their in-house procurement personnel who point out ANY deficiencies in the delivery of services. The Indians in this country have now also destroyed IT Staffing HERE in the USA by undercutting hourly rates for contractors and by cow-towing to companies like J & J, AT&T, Verizon et al and once they infest an organization, they continue to import more and more Indians at the expense of Americans.

          This has to stop an EVERY attempt should be made to NOT EXPAND H1B visas. Statist thugs like CHUCK SCHUMER, D-NY who advocate this in concert with the crony capitalist companies that take advantage of this should not receive any additional tax breaks to offshore jobs to the south Asian sh*thole called India.

  13. BY Not-so-happy-USA-worker says:

    HP is laying about the number. I have been working with the “off-shore / outsource” team since 2000. their skills are not up-to-the standard. they are very difficult to “communicate” with and they play dirty too. they took OUR (USA) jobs and gives me grief when the thing “broken” by them and blame US not providing enough processes / procedures.

  14. BY ddtech says:

    This is common in the business world in regards to profitability. If you want a job, make yourself more worthy, marketable and competitive to the industry; sharpen up and get with the program. Don’t whine like a baby and blame the govt or corporations when you can’t get work. The thousands of jobs I saw in India don’t pay anything (nearly 1/4 to 1/3 as much as those in the US, if you are lucky to get one) so it is not shocking in the least why HP made those decisions. In fact, India is outsourcing to China and a lot of companies are doing that. HP is a multinational corporation not a government or sovereign country and don’t owe anything to anyone – except their shareholders. Most politicians are douchebags and Ms Whitman is no different. Nonetheless, I am not a fan of HP, but people who are complaining need to quit taking the bait from the author on this. The companies are there to make money and if you haven’t forgotten, it is also the basis of our country (Capitalism, free-market- unless you forgot or are not American). Therefore, one way corporations remain profitable is by reducing expenditures/capital it takes to maintain payroll, this is not surprising. And last I heard, HP was not doing well (http://www.informationweek.com/software/enterprise-applications/can-hp-remake-itself-before-its-too-late/240005672) Job-wise, America needs to generally become more competitive and one way they/we need to do this is by focusing on innovation and furthering higher education from the very beginning (like other countries do). When we start taking things for granted and resting on our arrogant laurels, other people/cultures/countries will take up the slack. Get with it people! You think you got it bad, try living abroad, and quit your b!tching…

    -Unemployed tech guy from Calif., who just came back from hanging out in S. India for a year (and i couldn’t get a job there *either* because i was _too expensive_ to hire- there is a visa requirement of the govt that stipulates my salary be minimum $25k or Rs.13 lahks, and no “American” comp. could be bothered- so why should I?)

    • BY J. Smith says:

      Corporations make money they just are greedy pigs and want to make more more more money. We can bring them to their knees if we stop doing business with them.

      As it pertains to living conditions in other countries I don’t care. I have no intention on living there nor am I the cause of their situations.

      You sound like a die hard republican that is heartless, un-american, and generally like pre-revolutionary France a long time ago.. a good candidate for the guillotine.

      If you were out of work, had bills to pay, bet you would be whining.. its not whining these are genuine concerns and complaints and treasonable actions we are talking about.

      • BY ddtech says:

        Corporations aren’t greedy pigs, people are, especially shareholders who have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and don’t want to lose it. Stop doing doing business with them and you will soon realise that the majority of corporations are the ones people go back to, begging them for work in order to “pay their bills” in the first place.

        I may sound like a diehard Republican but actually I am one of those people who have actually been outside of that safety zone we call our America and have been able to view those less/more fortunate – e.g., how the rest of the world works, lives and prays. You may have no intention of ever exiting those border gates for a look-see, and that’s is where your insular, myopic reasoning gets it’s momentum- cultural ignorance. It’s not with obnoxious higher-than-thou “we are American” attitude and consumerism with perfectly wrapped Republican or Democratic party-line pigeon-holeing that you espouse. Such stuff is nonsense. I am embarrassed for you.

        Someone is sounding like a spin-off of Oliver Cromwell where he put to death those who when against his authoritarian (“un-American”) views and those we went the “Protectorate” of the state, aka radical social and religious behavior. Common these days with the unfortunate on-going terrorism problems and fear inspiring propaganda. Pre-revolutioary I am not, a pragmatist and forward thinker I am. Besides, I cloned myself – and she is making the same amount of money I would be- and she has 1/3 the experience and twice the degree background. Guess what? She is employed in a contract where she found that the American contractors who had been were failing badly. “All talk, no walk”. Guess what? She is from India… Furthermore, if you are struggling to pay bills, then think next time you spend too much on your consumerist slog and spendthrift wasteful objects and forget that it would have been wiser to have at least 6 months of savings to counteract the fallout when you have no job, you should do so, and not spend it on a new SUV.

        If you didn’t read my post carefully, I stated that I am “unemployed from Cailf.”. Oh yeah, I am voting for Obama, not because he’s the best, but because he’s barely *slightly* better than the worst, i.e., those who believe that paying less taxes will make a better living arrangement. Short-sighted thinking with negligible long-term effects. Typical American populist drivel.

    • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

      Is totally absurd read the first three paragraphs of this comment…
      —-”” This is common in the business world in regards to profitability. “”—-
      no doubt this is the LAW of the capitalism in the WORLD…
      —-”” If you want a job, make yourself more worthy, marketable and competitive to the industry; “”—-
      of course I WANT JOB because I’m Unemployed right now… so to be more worthy…!!! which mean WORK for FREE…!!! or at least get the same pay of the outsourced Jobs ?
      —-”” sharpen up and get with the program. “”—-
      yeah right…!!!, everybody here and most specifically the IT unemployed HAS MORE EXPERIENCE AND EDUCATION than any “Insignificant program” based from any course or education in the foreign countries.
      —-”” Don’t whine like a baby and blame the govt or corporations when you can’t get work. “”—-
      Of course that “I’m whine like a baby” because I’m UNEMPLOYED right now, and of course I’m Blaming at the Government FOR LEAVING “EASILY” that the corporations outsourced all the jobs THAT BELONG TO UNITED STATE OF AMERICA where all those companies were BORN.
      But… I’m still crying… just only to read all your comments and think: If all CEO of these corporations and some Important peoples from the government have the same thoughts and own interest like you…
      And then… WE ARE ALL TOAST… because you prefer all the money you can win at the expense of the welfare and health of families in the United State of America.

  15. BY Rednek says:

    What’s so special about this story??? It’s being done by many companies and for many years!!! I think the author’s job got outsourced and she wants to stir the pot.

    Like other bloggers, I agree HP is company and is answerable only to its shareholders (many of whom are fellow bloggers). If shareholders demand more bang for their buck, then companies will also do what it is necessary.. If not, they become targets for hostile takeover wolves!!

    Countries like India and China are just taking what is being given to them by US companies.. perfect service model. These countries opened their doors for foreign private investors and are reaping its benefits. There are other countries like Singapore which not only has liberal trade policies but also help fund start-ups. (BTW: Facebook co-founder has singapore residency.. Are my fellow bloggers gonna stop using Facebook) Go figure!!!!

    • BY ddtech says:

      I agree, stirring the pot, baiting the flame.. It’s what gets hits… Nothing special here, story-wise (or except for politicians that want votes).

      • BY J. Smith says:

        and displaced workers that want revenge. It does not matter if this has been going on 10 years it was wrong back then and its increasingly wrong today..

  16. BY HP Former says:

    Stir it some more

  17. BY Sick of WHIT-man says:

    HP invested millions of dollars overseas because they can 3 or 4 of them for one of me. They built them facilities to work in, trained them from scratch to do their jobs which 90% still can’t do, speak fluent English which 95% still can’t do, and allow them to quit after a year or two of doing pretty much nothing for their money because now they have experience and can find a better job or at least threaten to.

    America wake the heck up. You’re sending all these tech jobs oversees for the almighty buck and the only thing you get back is crap and you know it. Most of these so called technicians are employed because their governments are protecting them by invoking huge fines and or penalties for US companies that fire them or lay them off. They don’t have the same work ethic as we do. They have no loyalty. They can’t communicate well with their customers. They lack integrity and they could less about you, the customer. These layoffs aren’t affecting Panama, Costa Rica, Egypt, Malaysia, Poland, Great Britain, France, Belgium and a couple of countries I can’t pronounce either. I don’t blame the other countries by any means. I blame this one for letting this happen. If you’re too freakin’ fat, lose some weight particularly the weight you just gained/hired. Not the weight/talent that has worked the hours, suffered the sweat and bled to get HP where it is today. HP is is losng weight by getting rid of it’s eyes, ears, muscles and organs. What’s left is a useless blob of nothing. The heart is still there. It’s made of stone!

    • BY ddtech says:

      You go boy, let it all out….

      HP is in a bad place and everyone knows it.

      • BY J. Smith says:

        I was involved in 2 class actions suits settled out of court (which means the lawyers make out and we get nothing) because HP was designing their printers C5180 to say its out of colored Ink when it wasn’t. I noticed and felt it was odd that it was doing this when I did not do any color printing. The 2nd suit was HP for the same printer was using colored ink for black and white prints. Colored ink costs more so to use it up for black and white printing is a win win for them.

        Being an honest (but not particularly religious person) I have to ask; “who thinks of sh*t like this?”

        No doubt the same rat filth that works on Wall Street.

    • BY 15 year former HPer says:

      Amen! 15 years of 60+ hour weeks, delayed vacations and driving literally 100s of millions in sales, and I was shown the door 14 months from early retirement. HP was once a great company. Unfortunately, HP lost her “way.” So, I donated all of my HP gear to charity and sold what little stock remained at a considerable loss. I wish the best for the friends who remain and am saddened watching this once proud company being run into the ground.

  18. BY Margaret says:

    The worst thing is that this sort of thing does not lead to sustainable growth. This is shell game. HP is thrashing and going into death throes – last year it was about hardware – now they think they can develop their services business enough to keep afloat. Well, they need to look at the numbers and track their projects – it’s going to be ugly.

  19. BY Angry IT guy says:

    IT has become racist and prejudiced. No American Citizens need apply. Ridiculous.

    • BY ddtech says:

      How about this instead – “[American Citizens] have become racist and prejudiced. No [IT] need apply” I find this much more believable.

      IT and the whole sector is a business just like every other business. Profit usually comes first and people are delegated to being simple ‘resources’ in the whole profit/loss scenario. A truly good company is one who practices sustainable culture (as stated below by another poster), benefiting *all* who participate. Demonstrating anger towards HP is myopic and short-sighted when the people on the ground doing the grunt work can’t realistically sit in at their desks with any of the myriad CEOs that HP had gone through, looking at same balance sheets, trying to make sense of it all. Reading these posts is like having a discussion with the Indians about how arrogant and obnoxious Westerners can be, in highly professional English (which is not their first language) – the people in the call centres take these low paying and humiliating jobs instead of working in fast food. Sound familiar? At least they are working and not complaining about how things suck.

      • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

        It Is very Interesting see how ddtech try to defend the USA companies who make outsourcing jobs, but more curious is see how he defends the CEO decision to outsource the jobs and blame at the USA government to do that…

        Of Course.. I’m totally DISAGREE with all comments from ddtech, because all these point of view from his comments are based from “some kind CEO republican who has friend contact with the governments and making a lot of “outsourcing jobs” to get more money” (to me is like the famous problem Mitt Romney – Bain Capital Co.)

        So.. I have a Question to ddtech
        What do you think about this:
        —-”” Even state governments are now outsourcing IT jobs to Asia. Elected officials intentionally chopping American jobs in favor of cheaper labor overseas. What the hell is wrong with America? “”—-
        —-”” It Is NOT GOOD decision to give retirements at the workers who were CREATED those companies since the begin… because they DON’T CARE about the future of their families…. Where is the JOBS to the sons and grandsons of the founders of those companies…??? “”—-

        • BY ddtech says:

          Jimmy L. – I am not defending anyone or any one thing, I am just giving you some sidewalk education about how the business world operates- as well as reading everyone’s complaints on this blog. I am just a tech and not a business person or a political apologist. Take it or leave it. Besides, give some examples of the US government outsourcing and I will show you the same government elsewhere that is BROKE (and/or going through bankruptcy) in the first place. What are *you* going to do when your local government can’t pay its bills, is struggling to survive, and has lay off the police force or firemen?

  20. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    —-”” Jimmy L. – I am not defending anyone or any one thing, I am just giving you some sidewalk education about how the business world operates- as well as reading everyone’s complaints on this blog. I am just a tech and not a business person or a political apologist. Take it or leave it. Besides, give some examples of the US government outsourcing and I will show you the same government elsewhere that is BROKE (and/or going through bankruptcy) in the first place. What are *you* going to do when your local government can’t pay its bills, is struggling to survive, and has lay off the police force or firemen? “”—-

    Sorry.. but to me all your comments seems like you are defending the decision of the CEO corporations to outsource the jobs.
    Don’t worry… everyone here has knowledge of the “how business world operate” and these the reason of the all comments of this article.
    Right Now.. I Don’t have any example from you request.. but maybe Bob Smith can help me with this…
    So… about you question… the answer is very simple : STOP ALL OUTSOURCED JOBS THAT BELONGS TO UNITED STATE OF AMERICA and you will see that the unemployment rate is going to down significantly, and therefore will be more money to pay all the bill’s from the state government and there will be no need to lay off all policeman and fireman too.

  21. BY Edward Edmond says:

    There is a huge factor in this that most people do not seem to understand or take into account. Company CEOs and boards are required to maximized shareholder return on investment by law and regulation. This is *the* big change in corporate management that has occurred over the past 40 years that has resulted in a focus on short term performance (quarter by quarter) instead of looking to the longer term.

    In the 70s and through the 80s and 90s, left-leaning environmental, feminist, and union groups pressured the federal and state governments to give shareholders more power over companies by giving them more power over executive and board actions.

    These groups wanted this power so they could force their activist agendas into corporations (which they did…), but they rapidly found that they could also make a lot of money by pooling their money in large investment funds (CALPERS the Calif. public employees retirement system is the largest shareholder group on the entire planet…) and bully CEOs and boards into focusing on increasing the value of their stock ‘by any means necessary’.

    The increased power of large investment groups over corporate management is the single greatest factor that has devastated our economic strength in return for short term gains.

    And government has helped these groups with laws and regulations that strengthen their power.

    I’m a small business person, but I can vouch that the cost of hiring an employee in America is high and increasing rapidly due to ACA (aka Obamacare) and other regulations that raise the cost of not only health care, but the taxes employers pay on employees and increased regulatory compliance costs to keep up with mandated EEO and affirmative action regulations.

    Throw in radically increased unemployment insurance costs (mine increased from 0.04% to 1.6% over the past four years!!!) and the other costs of running a business and a reasonable person can see that hiring a new employee (or even a replacement employee) has been made far, far more difficult and expensive than it needs to be.

    • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

      Following your statement:
      —-”” Company CEOs and boards are required to maximized shareholder return on investment by law and regulation. “”—-
      So… this is a VALIDATED REASON to the CEO companies to outsource jobs instead of the welfare and health of the families in USA…???

      —-”” The increased power of large investment groups over corporate management is the single greatest factor that has devastated our economic strength in return for short term gains.
      And government has helped these groups with laws and regulations that strengthen their power. “”—-
      TOTALLY TRUE… and I’m totally agree with this statement

      —-”” and bully CEOs and boards into focusing on increasing the value of their stock ‘by any means necessary’ “”—-
      GOOD POINT here to get an Answer of the following Question:
      They Want Increase the value of their stock to get MORE PROFIT… and GIVE THIS MONEY to whom??? the Calpers of CA or the Stockholders of this Companies ???

    • BY Mike Jones says:

      You know, I’ve never heard one, not one, CEO have a news conference and explain this reason for screwing over Americans. Maybe because it’s a bunch of republican BS! Small companies want tax breaks from republicans. I don’t blame you! But outsourcing hurts more than the ones who get laid off. All the small businesses I used are now not getting any business from me. I have no money to spend. Maybe those business used your business. Or maybe you are someone who
      makes money outsourcing jobs and don’t give damn.

      • BY rheffero says:

        GE outsourced around 60,000 US jobs over the years, and there is no bigger Obama supporter in the corporate world than Immedlt. Note, on the while. Democrats receive more money from the Super Wealthy than GOP (think Spielberg, and his peers).. GOP says their focus is on not raising taxes on the small business, it is up to Congress to figure out how to keep the Super Wealthy (Obama supporters like Buffet, Gates, Oprah, Silcon valley, Goldman Sachs) out of that equation so they do not get the same tax break a small business job creator will get.. Note-the US already has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, guess what, taxing the heck out of everyone it aint working either.

      • BY Tony says:

        So you don’t like facts, especially if the prove your whole theory has been wrong all along. Thats ok there is several Americans in your same boat.Look in the mirror, learn how to be competitive and go get a piece of the pie. You will be much more happy.

    • BY James E. LaBarre says:

      The problem these big companies are going to face soon, once all our jobs get shipped overseas, is that no one in the USA will have any money to spend on the products. Certainly no one in those third-world countries, being paid at slave-labor or less wages, will be able to afford the very products they are making. And since no one in the USA will have a job anymore, we won’t be able to buy them either. And those mega-corporations will find they have all this product, and no one to buy it, at which point there will be mass bankruptcies (with the resultant destabilization of the world economy).

      • BY rheffero says:

        India has 3x’s our population, so..they would just sell there

        • BY Jeff Smith says:

          Sell to who? Over 400 million of them are on the public dole for food and survival every day. And with the money they make (slave waqes) they can afford to buy American products. Except Wall Mart.

  22. BY Allen says:

    It amazes me that Corporate (HP, DELL, et al.) focuses on emerging markets while losing desire and visibility of their largest existing market – the United States. Every employee you layoff here translates into lost opportunity going forward. A rather foolish and short-sighted business model…

  23. BY Vince Domantay says:

    I agree, we shld fine Or penalize companies who outsource jobs. We have a lot of resources here in the US. Let’s boycott those greedy companies like HP.

    • BY Joseph Arnold says:

      Again another person who has no idea what they are talking about. The only people to blame for outsourcing american jobs is the american people. We elect a clown like Obama who hates business and we wonder why companies outsource. With all the regulations and freebees the american people want the cost of doing business in the US is cost prohibitive. If the government would take their boot of american companies and let the work more jobs would be kept at home

    • BY US Employee says:

      I agree, we should not buy any HP products.

  24. BY David says:

    This is why the coming elections matter. Right now corporations actually get favorable US tax treatment when they outsource jobs to other countries. Barack Obama wants to stop this practice. Mitt Romney doesn’t see a problem with this. None of this maximizing shareholder value philosophical discussion amounts to anything. If Enron, Worldcom, Health South teaches us anything that is CEO’s care about themselves and their pay not about anything else. They’ll defraud shareholders if they have to.

    • BY Allen says:

      I do not believe either political party has the interests of their constituents on the radar. President Obama has had ample opportunity to address corporate and throw his political prowess to this situation. Since you mention regulatory issues, the Securities & Exchange Commission continues to be less than effective under the current administration. Both parties are under the thumb of lobbyists representing special interests, both foreign and domestic. Unfortunately in the corporate ranks, anyone at a VP/Director level and below are not represented, unless they may hold an H1-b or eqivalent – they are well-represented…

    • BY rheffero says:

      Obama does not want to stop this practice, because when he had full control of the house and senate for 2 years he would have introduced legislation to do just that. Fact is Obama does not have a solution for this, Harley Davidson just announced a massive send of US jobs to India. Obama said nothing. His 4 years is almost up, stop believing the hype. He takes large contributions from the CEO’s who are doing the outsourcing, stop being delusional. Fact is 35% of those jobs end up coming back because India does not have an exhaustive talent pool either. I worked at a company that move 50,000+ jobs overseas, this is done despite business;operations suffering a loss of service. Meg simply does not have a fresh ideas on how to get HP competitive.

      • BY Jimmy Lozano says:

        MMMMEEEEEENNNNNN…..

        If Obama does not want to stop this practice… and Mitt Romney doesn’t see a problem with this…!!!!

        What we can do…???

        Create the REAL THIRD PARTY into USA to give jobs at ALL USA CITIZENS/RESIDENTS and stop the economic crisis and the f***** recession that we are living right now???

        —- “” But… I’m still crying… just only to read all your comments and think: If all CEO of these corporations and some Important peoples from the government have the same thoughts and own interest like you…
        And then… WE ARE ALL TOAST… because you prefer all the money you can win at the expense of the welfare and health of families in the United State of America. “”—-

        • BY rheffero says:

          Jimmy, you do realize that Obama, Dems, GOP, Romney, Independents are elected into office. Right now, the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, it can not compete with non union countries that import prodcuts into the US, it can not substain the load that pensions/taxes puts on companies, and the standard of living in the US is so expensive, that it can no longer afford to employ skilled labor (which is why CEO’s outsource). You add that up, and then pour the cost of energy, which goes up every time the idiot in Iran opens his mouth (despite no change in demand/supply) and you have the formula for disaster. For those who think China is going great, they have over 200 million unemployed and they are printing money faster than the US is. India had a blackout that impacted 650 million and Europe is broke. Good luck blaming the Presidential candidates.

      • BY mcp123 says:

        “Obama does not want to stop this practice, because when he had full control of the house and senate for 2 years he would have introduced legislation to do just that”

        Legislation to do just that was recently introduced and blocked by republicans… don’t tell me which side doesn’t want the practice eliminated. Republicans are the tools of big business… which obvious wants to create and keep jobs elsewhere rather than in America.

        • BY rheffero says:

          You appear to have an emotional view that misses the facts, big business, super wealthy, hedge fund guys love Obama, check out his supporter/donor list, GOP is stating that they trying to support and shield Small Business from the government take over. Small business is where 70% of job growth comes from. When you raise your taxes on those earning over 250,000, 2/3 are small businesses, who then do not hire. because that money go back to Congress (black hole). Let’s Tax the heck out of the super wealthy, Buffet, Gates Spielberg, hedge funds and that ilk, they can afford it, taxing the guy who owns some Subways and busts his butt every day is not going to get us out of this mess.

      • BY HD says:

        This kind of legislation cannot be passed with just a majority in both chambers. It requires super majority, which Democrats didn’t have, or didn’t have for long. And even if they did have super majority, the passed legislation would soon be challenged in court like the health care. You are ignoring that fact.

    • BY Tony says:

      I haven’t seen Barack Obama address the issue at all. All he has done is made the situation worse. Even if he did want to his Party wants to increase corporate tax which drove them out in the first place.
      The goverment sets the playing field and then corperations work with in that playing field. It’s a good thing that CEO’s want to make a profit and create jobs for the world. It would be nice if our goverment made it so they could create them here instead of over seas.

  25. BY RR says:

    And to think she almost became our Govenor here in Ca.

  26. BY Shelley says:

    If you want to help slow, or stop, the flow of jobs out of America, stop buying the foreign-made products and patronizing companies that sell foreign-made products. We consumers have contributed to the lost jobs by settling for low priced, low quality products.

  27. BY twins.fan says:

    Corporate America employs a process known in the offshoring industry known as KT (Knowledge Transfer) to accomplish the process occurring at HP now. Work visas such as the H1B, OPT, L1, L1B, etc. are essential to this process.

    1. Major corporation such as HP or Microsoft or Google or Apple wants to reduce labor costs.
    2. Corporation hires Indian H1B body shop, such as Infosys or Tata or Wipro, to bring team of workers with work visas, such as H1B visa, to US to be trained by workers that will be replaced.
    3. Corporation lays off half of a particular department and instructs remaining workers to train their replacements.
    4. One H1B recipients are trained, remaining US workers are canned.
    5. US operations are dismantled and reassembled in India.
    6. Corporate executives and sock puppet politicians deny that anything happened.

    • BY Paul C says:

      I agree, but would like to add that the Indian companies that you mention, along with COMRISE, INFOSYS, RADIANT among others have all DESTROYED IT positions here in the USA. They are also all about destroying the Staffing industry as well. Not just in IT, but in Accounting, Finance, Sourcing etc.

      The INDIAN companies are also some of the most UNETHICAL in the business as witnessed by their recruiting practices that include unauthorized resume submissions, falsification of credentials, etc.

      I believe that there is NO shortage of American IT professionals. I am involved in IT Sourcing, am American, retired US military and believe that companies who say this LIE! What there is is a shortage of Americans who are unwilling to work for THIRD WORLD SHIT wages that the Indians and others are willing to accept.

      What there is in fact exists in the USA, Europe and Australasia and that is a concerted effort by companies who WILL EMPLOY the Indian companies or locate back-office efforts there to drive down US and other FIRST WORLD wages.

      If I had my way, instead of increasing H1B and other visas, I would CUT THEM OFF completely UNTIL (and only when) US UNEMPLOYMENT DROPS DRAMATICALLY. And by that, I mean in IT and other tech fields to well below 6% for US CITIZENS. Not green card holders, not H1B and other work visas, US CITIZENS FIRST!

      I DISAGREE with those of you who favor OBAMA’s approach because we have already seen that it FAILED and will CONTINUE to FAIL because at its heart, it is ANTI-BUSINESS. The TAX advantages to US Corporations should be removed, but OBAMA’s SOCIALIST and anti-freedom programs, including those that resemble totalitarian policies like the re-imposition of the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE in broadcasting are NOT the Answer!

      • BY Jeff Smith says:

        Obama won’t do it, and of course Romney won’t do it. We need a third party but meanwhile lets start harassing Hindu job thieves that are here. Make them know that the common American worker does not want you here.

        • BY Paul C says:

          Gee, Jeff,
          That’s real smart. HARASS an Indian? Leave yourself open to termination of employment, possible criminal prosecution by both state and federal authorities, not to mention more financial problems.

          As Asian Indians, they are a PROTECTED MINORITY and I guarantee they will use that protected status to screw you over if you mess with them.

      • BY Juggernaut says:

        If u think bringing back outsourced jobs is gonna solve the unemployment problem here in the US than you are living in a fool’s paradise. Most of jobs with highest unemployment rates are related to the construction industry and telemarketing jobs most of whom do not even have a college degree.

  28. BY madhtr says:

    As Atlas Shruggs ….

  29. BY Jenn says:

    Oh yeah, she would have been a great CA governor, NOT! Now we can elect Romney for president and tell all the unemployed to move to India.

  30. BY High Tech Peon says:

    I have to laugh at the corporate shills. “I was born at night — but not last night!”

    I work with a product whose single source is HP. They moved all the work on it to India during the past decade. The single version which has shipped from India was [A] woefully late, and [B] riddled with bugs *even after installing the major patch kit which shipped with the new version*.

    Can you imagine Microsoft shippnig Windows 8 with its SP1 as part of the original install?

    Since then, I’ve had the displeasure of working with them to *try* to get fixed a bug which makes their current version quite unusable where I work. After nigh on six months, I’ve found a couple of additional bugs in the “bag-on-the-side” crapware, and no hints of whether they think they will have a fix before Christmas.

    Oh, one of those bugs *broke* some code which used to work properly. At one time that product had working regression tests. Dirty little secret: a guy I know who used to work on it claimed that the bunglers of Bangalore had repeatedly removed tests from the list of those run regularly… “because they always failed, so there must be something wrong with THE TESTS!” Helped me understand why the ‘latest & greatest’ is really a POS.

    Finally, Margaret’s statement that “now they think they can develop their services business enough to keep afloat” was a knee-slapper. Half of the attraction of merging with COMPAQ a decade ago was COMPAQ’s service business — yes, the one which they spent years gutting and running into the ground! Sounds like the beauzeaux in upper management haven’t noticed that they have helped to staff their competitors in that space, by laying off lots of their own HW and SW service-providing enployees.

    HP obviously feels it has no need for American employees. It seems like they feel no need for American customers as well.

  31. BY Daniel SiliconValley says:

    Meg Whitman, the CEO of HP is a die-hard Republican, and a staunch supporter of Mitt Romney.

    If Mitt Romney is elected US President, we should look for more US jobs being SLASHED and GO OFFSHORE, while keeping jobs in foreign countries intact. Mitt Romney & Meg Whitman combo! Is this good for US Economy?

    Meg Whitman is a Harvard MBA with no technical background, running a highly technical company. Another carry-over of Carly Fiorina. Does anyone remember this?

    It is a real shame to see that HP, once the most respectible high tech company in the USA, is being ruined by these incompetent, Republicans. Republicans seem to spend all their time thinking about women’s body parts, disecting rape into forced, legitimate, illegitimate, and sending jobs overseas!

    • BY MontanaMatt says:

      America has been Great because America has been Good.
      America is losing its Greatness Because America is losing its Goodness.
      Abortion, Perverts, Selfishness, blaming disobedient to the foundational trues of civilization.
      Your churches and your families are in shambles America.
      Your Glands are driving you. You do not follow God, you follow your urges.
      Brace Your self! We are the generation who has lost something Great!

  32. BY Jim says:

    Layoff Whitman. That could be a good first step for the company

    • BY rheffero says:

      Laying of Whitman is a good emotional response, but She already made her fortune, and the next guy brought in will also be super wealthy. Better solution, try and even the playing field between the US and India so there is not a good reason to move the jobs. The skills in India are not better, despite what you ahve heard.

  33. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    Jimmy, you do realize that Obama, Dems, GOP, Romney, Independents are elected into office. “”Nop… I realize that THEY ARE ELECTED by OTHERS HIDING PEOPLES that has full control of the government right now.””
    Right now, the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, it can not compete with non union countries that import prodcuts into the US, it can not substain the load that pensions/taxes puts on companies, and the standard of living in the US is so expensive,
    “”OK.. everything you said here is true and I’m agree, but…””
    that it can no longer afford to employ skilled labor (which is why CEO’s outsource).
    “” WAIT… wait… I’M NOT AGREE with this statement… because HERE in USA WE HAVE BETTER and MORE employed skilled labor (no doubt)… So, I’m NOT agree that the CEO’s outsourced all jobs outside from USA””
    You add that up, and then pour the cost of energy, which goes up every time the idiot in Iran opens his mouth (despite no change in demand/supply) and you have the formula for disaster.
    “” Why we need TO BE AFRAID when SOME ONE outside from USA open the mouth…??? EVERYBODY outside from USA, ALWAYS TALK BAD AND SAID STUPID THINGS AGAINST USA… ALWAYS… is the nature of the human being speak badly of their neighbors when they are not known to close. So… to me is a bad political move to blame whatever important person outside from USA said stupid thing and LEAVE the companies and corporations RISE ALL PRICES of their products for FEAR…””
    For those who think China is going great, they have over 200 million unemployed and they are printing money faster than the US is.
    “” Good for them… Bad for Us…””
    India had a blackout that impacted 650 million and Europe is broke. Good luck blaming the Presidential candidates.
    “” Yep… I’m still Blaming the Presidential Candidates… because ANY of THESE CANDIDATES present any GOOD formula to STOP the Unemployment in USA and STOP the economic crisis that we are living right now… The Only solution that I’m seeing right now is the FAMOUS REAL THIRD PART… If you have another better solution, please be free and tell us to make a discussion about this.””

    • BY rheffero says:

      A better solution than “..blame the Presidential candidates..’? Sure understand why India is so attractive to the CEO and then remove the reasons why they would move the jobs out of the US. In addition, make it punitive to move an established job there, and create incentives to add a job here. If it turns out the reason is talent is better, then you will get an argument, as I have worked with companies in India for 20 years, and I can state, without any reservation, the talent IS NOT better, just cheaper. In 5 years, there are studies that show the costs to move the jobs there usually catch up with the savings and it becomes a wash anyway.

      • BY Edward Edmond says:

        The “talent” in India is rapidly becoming “better” because we are educating them in large numbers, and culturally they still value *real* education (that which adds real value to the society, as opposed to all of our worthless “Studies” degrees we push, holders of which can’t even flip a burger without filing a grievance or lawsuit or going on disability or at best protest for a new law/regulation empowering one-armed, tri-sexuals from Borneo or something…).

        Point is, don’t dismiss the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) capabilities of the Indian people. They are improving rapidly and capital is increasingly going their way not because of cheap labor (it is getting more expensive in India), but because of less expensive and improving STEM capabilities.

        It is only smart to assume that if we in America don’t once again strive aggressively to be the best on a personal, societal and cultural basis, we deserve to be run over by other nations/societies that do.

        Unfortunately, for the past 40 years, liberals/progressives and wussy and stupid Republicans (like Akin…) have turned our formerly freedom-based, achievement-oriented American culture anti-American, anti-male, anti-family, anti-individual-freedom, anti-white-people, anti-success, anti-achievement steaming pile of whiny, cowardly PC excrement.

        While we can survive an Obama presidency – what we can’t survive is the collectivist, anti-individual-freedom, government-centric mentality embodied by those who will vote for him again. A government with the power to provide the guarantees and “equal outcomes” they expect, can and will be by definition, be massively oppressive and will eradicate our rights while promising to take care of us and make it all better.

        Our founders warned us quite clearly about the mess we created. This from Jefferson:

        “I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.”

        “The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits.”

        “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”

        “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”

        • BY Jeff Smith says:

          They offer free education for upper caste Hindus. Here you have to pay for education which is slanted towards the rich. And with unemployment so high its hard for a student to make ends meat now-a-days.

          In spite of their education they are not that good and not experienced and they are not dedicated since they are working for another countries companies.

          I have worked with them by the rice bag full.

  34. BY ITMikeT says:

    This just shows the true colors of HP. They don’t care about the American worker. All they care about is fattening their pockets. I agree that this country needs to start taxing companies like HP who outsource labor to these “emerging markets”. Government-wise, it seems like the Republican and Tea Party agenda is to get rid of “big government”. Why? So that big business can have free reign to do as they please. Big business doesn’t like big government.

  35. BY Homer Collins says:

    I’m sorry but HP is supposed to be a US company.. I think it’s pretty bad when they should be supporting this country’s economy but, instead they are supporting India.

    And how is it a,”Global Workforce Reduction”, if everyone but India is being affected.

  36. BY Deej says:

    I find it saddening that our country has been divided amongst itself. This is evidenced by the comments here. The few are lording over the many and the few have the control. When voting, consider carefully whom you want in control. It’s not so much who is in the White House, though that matters immensely. It’s who is sitting in the 535 seats we pay to represent us … who have NOT been representing us. Democrats, Republicans, Independents alike are awash in lies, broken promises and red ink. Stop the madness. Unite as the people whom were given the control of the government in these United States and vote out ALL incumbents. Vote in working class people who do not have ties to special interests, who have integrity, honor and dignity. Return our country to the control of the people as it was intended. Vet everything – no matter the source… EVERYTHING. No matter if it comes from ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, CNN or Rush or Medved or any other talking head – VET IT. Do not use Snopes or the like – their bias is proven. Speak to those present, those who know, those who will give you the whole truth. The time has come for our country to not war amongst itself, but to weed our representative government. Weed out the fellow in the White House. Weed out the appointed for life Supreme Court Judges. Weed out EVERY Senator and EVERY Representative… Every Governor and Lt. Governor, Every Mayor and all City Council People and County Officials. Boot the Sheriff too. Elect a new planning commission… but most of all – most importantly in all of this – GET INVOLVED IN IT – stop the talk and begin the walk. It’s time to take what is ours back.

    Regarding the original story – I worked for HP in the early 1970s in Silicon Valley. The company was the most well respected as far as quality and customer service. HP was HP before Compaq ever was even thought of. It isn’t that it merged with Compaq, it’s that we have a selfish, self-serving population who soaks up the benefits while not contributing to the very society they enjoy. It’s time to stand up, work hard, expect and demand honor, honesty and integrity in all things – from your neighbor to your children’s schools to your employer and fellow employees on up the chain to the President of the United States.

    MAN that felt good to get off my chest. :-)

  37. BY Hayden says:

    Close down all operations in the U.S. and move them all to India, then India can buy all HP products. The U.S. can look for another manufacturer of computers that would be willing to invest in America. Let’s see how long HP remains a viable concern.

  38. BY whatdoyouknowa says:

    We the people need to focus on (1) company in every line of business, and ignore their products.
    Just as Lions do when they hunt, focus one one victim and the rest will fall in line.

    When jobs are gone, so will the economy, followed by mayhem.

    Years ago when an American company opened a factory in 4th world countries, and hired 12 year old kids to work numerous hours, we here in America, believe it or not, got upset and called it “exploitation”, today we do not have time to tolerate this sort of thing, and we call it “Globalization”.

    Reading the above article, just helped decide not to purchase an HP computer.

  39. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    A better solution than “..blame the Presidential candidates..’?
    “” YEP… CREATE the famous THIRD PARTY “”
    Sure understand why India is so attractive to the CEO and then remove the reasons why they would move the jobs out of the US. In addition, make it punitive to move an established job there, and create incentives to add a job here.
    “” NOP.. nop.. I’m not agree with your statement because they move a established job there… but THEY ARE NOT creating incentives to add job here… if not, why the unemployment rate is still in the top…!!! “”
    If it turns out the reason is talent is better, then you will get an argument, as I have worked with companies in India for 20 years, and I can state, without any reservation, the talent IS NOT better, just cheaper.
    “” Totally true and I’m agree “”
    In 5 years, there are studies that show the costs to move the jobs there usually catch up with the savings and it becomes a wash anyway.
    “” Nop.. I Can Not see it… because if you worked around 20 years in India and the outsourced jobs ARE THERE… then after 5 more years, the same outsourced jobs WILL BE THERE. “”
    “” And… I still waiting your better solution than mine to be commented. “”

  40. BY Dibbles McPhee says:

    Do not buy products by HP anymore.

  41. BY Robert says:

    Yes it’s sad, we ask what’s happening to America? I was an SQA Technician for Nielsen and I ‘trained my replacement’. I was unable to get another job … now it IS POSTED by companies NOT TO APPLY UNLESS YOU ARE EMPLOYED (WTF IS THAT ???) They (corporations) look at you as worthless if you were let go. I understand WHY this is happening, I understand corporate bottom-line. But I think I might have felt a little better if I was let go and an AMERICAN came in to do my job. It’s been a few years now, when I did get an interview, (I KNOW) I was not asked back because my hair is turning gray – but they can’t say so. So after some time I got fewer interviews and got tired of the rejections.
    So now I work in a department store next to other AMERICANS who could not get re-hired into their trade, and I see these ‘FOREIGNERS’ coming through the store and looking DOWN on ME!!! And I am seeing more and more of ‘them’ … blame the government ??? blame the corps ??? we saw this coming and let it go by … i have written my congressmen, and i’ve written the white house telling them I will ‘fire them’ come next election if they don’t DO something.
    I’ve read all of your comments, some good – some bad – some stupid … MY vote is but one … check your candidates – vote smart … who knows, maybe something will change …

    • BY Paul says:

      I don’t think it’s legal for employers to post ads like that. Discrimination as to employment status is STILL discrimination.

  42. BY Paul C says:

    Here’s an interesting blog for folks hoping to work in IT here in the USA.

    http://www.scmfocus.com/sapprojectmanagement/2012/05/should-you-use-indian-recruiters/#comment-220

  43. BY Jeff Smith says:

    rheffero claims we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, but yet they can itemize all these deductions, hide wealth overseas, barrage the IRS with voluminous TAX returns that they cannot possible figure out (GE).. so big deal, high rate but what is the next amount paid? Nothing. Then you have Romney paying a 13% rate while us middle class dogs pay more and make far less. He is not a true Patriot when he tries to dodge paying his fair share.

    Time to bring out the guillotine folks, the great equalizer and something they will understand quickly.

    As we once again paraphrase Jefferson, “The Tree of Liberty needs to be refreshed with blood from time to time..” now is the time. We need to save our country from greed.

  44. BY Thyme says:

    Does this even make sense to have your R&D department and business offices in India? HP use to be known for its quality products and its name was a quality name. This move makes the people from, India, think that they are better than us in brain power, and, I beg to differ. They come over here to work and they still do not, nor, do want to assimilate into the American way of life. They stay with their own culture and live (or buy) in some of the best housing in this country. I have lived amongst them…their children are the most undiscipline children I have ever been around…even in stores, many of them do not have manners. And, no, I am not being racist I am just stating the facts. So why do they not use their brain power to educate their children about manners and how to act in public. As for Meg Whitman….there are no words.
    I

  45. BY david ross says:

    Looking at demographics/population (reference http://www.china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2008_PopByAge_0-24.htm )
    Population under 25:
    India: 600,000; China 500,000; USA 100,000

    Assuming education and profession distribution to trend to equivalent, I believe there will be a trend to 11 software engineers in Asia to 1 in the US. The magic of communications make this a real possibility, I think. The problem is accepting the trend.

  46. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    Mr. ED-ED good to see you again…
    Let me tell you something about your comments…

    The “talent” in India is rapidly becoming “better” because we are educating them in large numbers, and culturally they still value *real* education (that which adds real value to the society, as opposed to all of our worthless “Studies” degrees we push, holders of which can’t even flip a burger without filing a grievance or lawsuit or going on disability or at best protest for a new law/regulation empowering one-armed, tri-sexuals from Borneo or something…).
    “” MMmmm.. how can be possible that the talent in India is becoming “better” if their MODEL of studies are based in the cultural model of USA Studies…??? I don’t understand, because in 1 side you said USA studies are worthless and the other side you said Indian Studies are better…!!!
    Can you explain this please…””

    Point is, don’t dismiss the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) capabilities of the Indian people. They are improving rapidly and capital is increasingly going their way not because of cheap labor (it is getting more expensive in India), but because of less expensive and improving STEM capabilities.
    “” Wait… I’m not agree… because to me RIGHT NOW they are improving rapidly and capital is increasingly going their way is BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHEAP LABOR than the labor in USA, and these is the reason of all outsourced jobs from USA.””

    It is only smart to assume that if we in America don’t once again strive aggressively to be the best on a personal, societal and cultural basis, we deserve to be run over by other nations/societies that do.
    “” NOP… Nop… I’m NOT AGREE, because in USA we have the best on a personal, societal and cultural basis IN THE WORLD… if not why MANY COUNTRIES including India country has the same model of education from USA (STEM like you said it)””

    Unfortunately, for the past 40 years, liberals/progressives and wussy and stupid Republicans (like Akin…) have turned our formerly freedom-based, achievement-oriented American culture anti-American, anti-male, anti-family, anti-individual-freedom, anti-white-people, anti-success, anti-achievement steaming pile of whiny, cowardly PC excrement.
    “” Totally true.. no doubt… but not only this politician… I think that the 80% of the politician in Washington DC right now have the same thought and own interest like Akin…””

    While we can survive an Obama presidency – what we can’t survive is the collectivist, anti-individual-freedom, government-centric mentality embodied by those who will vote for him again. A government with the power to provide the guarantees and “equal outcomes” they expect, can and will be by definition, be massively oppressive and will eradicate our rights while promising to take care of us and make it all better.
    “” I think you are right with this statement of Obama… but I think Mitt Romney has the same point of view in the political perspective or worst.””

    • BY David Taylor says:

      yo teabagger…your analysis made some good points until you pointed out your racist and sexist slant and revealed your true nature. Stick to the facts. Obama did not promote outsourcing and the abandonment of education in the US. That has occured on EVERY US President and politicians watch for the past 40 years. I fear the wide open capitalism of the crazy right, which has driven the world to the brink of financial collapse more than the Black President, Mr White Man. GTFOH. If you’re Indian, keep your caste system biases to yourself.

  47. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    —-”” The problem these big companies are going to face soon, once all our jobs get shipped overseas, is that no one in the USA will have any money to spend on the products. Certainly no one in those third-world countries, being paid at slave-labor or less wages, will be able to afford the very products they are making. And since no one in the USA will have a job anymore, we won’t be able to buy them either. And those mega-corporations will find they have all this product, and no one to buy it, at which point there will be mass bankruptcies (with the resultant destabilization of the world economy). “”—-

    Totally true James E. Labarre… totally true… No doubt

    • BY Paul B. says:

      I will soon be retiring all my HP equipment. Thank god I don’t have much. As an old friend told me, they are catching the mice, while the elephants are walking over them.

    • BY Hayden says:

      I totally agree. Let them sell all their product to India and China. Let’s see if HP can sustain its profets through those sales.

    • BY Greg B. says:

      Henry Ford recognized he had to pay his workers enough to afford to buy the products they made thus creating his own market. Eventually we will become the low cost producer of IT again when we are the ones starving in poverty and India and China are the rich nations. Let’s hope they become as stupid as we are and export the jobs back here to our grandchildren.

      • BY rheffero says:

        China has at least 200 million unemployed and the numbers from India are similiar. The only ones bringing those jobs back are the companies that shipped them there. 35% of the outsourced make it back within 7 years.The problem with punishing HP is that that causes the loss or more US jobs.

  48. BY exemployee says:

    What HP? Does that stand for Hodge Podge? Because they’re a big mess. I felt bad for EDS and thier employees when they were bought by HP, I wonder what this means for them? EDS used to be a good company and so was HP at one time. I actually believed that I was working for a top notch company, first they took away 5% and then began talking about taking away other benefits. Talk about a greedy company that hasn’t even given a cost of living raise to it’s employees. A few of us figured out what HP Enterprise services was charging for our contract and the services we were providing to the customer and everyone felt like HP was ripping off thier own employees, there should be a law against that. Anyway, I was forced to make a decision and venture on to better oppurtunities because I felt that HP was not taking care of thier own, especially the folks doing the work and making the money for the company. I finally got tired of being screwed around with year after year. I will not be buying HP products nor recommending HP services in the future and I will advise the same to any friends, family, etc…

  49. BY Doug_B says:

    To quote John Kunstler: “…. All of this is consistent with one of my current cardinal political theories: that it is the subconscious wish of all the people now running things in this land to turn the USA into the Bulgaria of the Western Hemisphere by finding the worst possible way to get everything done with the greatest degree of collateral cruelty.

    From this precept, it would follow naturally that everything our leaders say and do about improving the dismal jobs picture is designed to be as inept and counterproductive as possible. That is, we don’t really want to provide more jobs for Americans; we just want to pretend that our intentions are good — while actually striving to make things worse.”

    Wake up! It’s not about IT. We’re not going back to the status quo of 2000.

  50. BY Paul B. says:

    How about educating our american children so they can work for HP?

    • BY rheffero says:

      9000 were working for HP today, but not tomorrow, not because of education, but because they cost too much.

    • BY Bob says:

      College-age kids got smart about 10 years ago, saw that too many IT jobs were disappearing here and going to Asia, and stopped going into IT degree programs. That’s why businesses here are always pressuring the government to UP the H1B Visa quota. Always claiming there aren’t enough skilled workers around. Horse****! There are plenty around, they just don’t want to hire anyone over the age of 40.

  51. BY Paul B. says:

    Gee Paul C. You have made our best argument for our side. Can we quote your comment????

  52. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    BY JUGGERNAUT | AUGUST 23, 2012
    If u think bringing back outsourced jobs is gonna solve the unemployment problem here in the US than you are living in a fool’s paradise. Most of jobs with highest unemployment rates are related to the construction industry and telemarketing jobs most of whom do not even have a college degree.

    NOP… certainly NOP… I’m not agree with your point of view… I’m not living in a fool’s paradise… because when ALL THESE outsourced jobs CAME BACK to USA the people and the families will have more money to buy houses and stop the unemployment in the construction field… and then, they will have more money to call at the marketing places to buy more things and stop the unemployment in the marketing field… and then the chain is on… and on.. and on… etc…

  53. BY RR says:

    Our entire government system is really designed around facilitating big businesses and profitability, whom ironically the majority of us in IT work for.
    Businesses have tendency to push the ethical and legal boundries when they see an opportunity to profit fast, and their lobbyists prevent lawmakers from changing things until it is too late ie Financial crisis.
    Executive pay is one of many examples where unethical practices continue for years, yet in this case the majority of workers haven’t received a decent raise in years.

    We should ask, why doesn’t our government or our shitty lawmakers focus on developing our society through education, healthcare, and finacial equality?
    The argument has been too long that facilitating big business, and making things better for the wealthy will tricke down to everyone else, which has proven to be false by a mountain of statistics.

    • BY rheffero says:

      That is such a cliche, How much more do we need to spend on education, health care and training, what is the magic number? ,,,they outsourced the jobs because it COSTS THEM LESS to pay contractors in India/Vietnam/China than to have these roles as employees in US.

      No more payroll tax, health benefits, soc security, HR, team outings, on down the line.

    • BY rheffero says:

      Calls for more resources (money) for education are part of our fabric. US (state, fed) spends more GDP on education than the average in the EU; Japan; emerging countries, so let’s stop that as a reason for jobs leaving the US. Excerpt from from dept of education study (A nation at risk). intended to scare…ya think

      “…Calls for additional resources for education have been present as long as public education itself, and legislative bodies from those in Washington, D.C., to state legislatures to school boards have responded. In 1983, total spending on public education in the U.S. was $118.4 billion.
      If we had since increased spending by only the rate of inflation, we would have spent $246 billion in 2005. Instead, in 2005, the U.S. spent $499 billion on K–12 education, or roughly double the amount spent in 1983, after adjusting for inflation. This increase is not just a consequence of increased K–12 enrollment. Per-student spending grew from $5,691 in 1983 to almost $9,266 in 2005, after adjusting for inflation. This large increase in resources has not gone hand-in-hand with improvements in student performance. While resources will always remain an issue of debate in education, we must find more effective and efficient ways to use funding. ..”

      http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/accountable/accountable.pdf

  54. BY Mike says:

    Business exist to make money and the US isn’t as competitive anymore. Start looking at the problem in the mirror. Political solutions have gotten us here, why more of the same bad medicine?

  55. BY Paul C says:

    I’m really glad to see that PC and a true LACK of freedom of speech is alive and well at this blog. Happy to see my anti-Immigrant rant was NOT posted. NOT!

  56. BY Indian-IT-worker says:

    To start with, let me say that I am an Indian IT worker (former HP) and presently in the US — jobless ! After facing numerous racial innuendos everyday from some know-it-all smart asses (some of them here in this forum), let me tell you my part of the deal.

    Yes,I would love to go back to the days when there was no outsourcing..none at all ! Some crack head came up with the the idea of globalization and look where it has brought us.Right ? Yes, I would have loved to continue with my education in Electrical Engineering and would probably be building machines which would help millions in my country. None of that could happen because some swanky IT company picked us up right from the college and made us believe that we had a better future in IT. Only after a couple of months in the industry did we realise that it was all hog wash. Sitting at crampy desks in the middle of the night with the most thankless jobs of the industry was not our interpretation of a bright career. Some fortunate and rather intelligent folks quit right away. I didn’t and hence I get to be the butt of all ridicules and cliched, super camouflaged and sometimes outright racial remarks.

    Yes, I would love it if all you folks had jobs here and were self sufficient.I wish the same for India. Dell, HP, Coca Cola, Pepsi and the hoarde of US companies could move out of countries like India and come back here. Ofcourse they will suffer huge losses (they make a lot of money there because of the huge market) but they have the support of the American people…don’t they ? They might have to cut jobs here as well to balance their margins but that wouldn’t affect you, I am sure. As for the Indians, yes many will starve to death initially but what the heck…that is one resilient nation, we will built our own companies and employ people. Again, the market is so huge that some industries will always make a lot of money and people will be happy to do any kind of a job. But are you sure, people in the US would want to make thier hands dirty with the millions of menial shift jobs that would be left open now. Who will answer those calls in the middle of the night for things as stupid as ” I spilled coffee on my key board, what should I do”. Hey, wait a minute..those things can’t be cheaper anymore. They will be manufactured here in the US. And for that smart ass who runs to Walmart for every other thing, my friend… there would be a surprise waiting for you ! Millions will be job less (no different than now), but ofcourse you wouldn’t have countries like India to blame for stealing your jobs.

    And for the know-it-all here who thinks India is 80 % illiterate, buddy don’t know where you are getting your stats from but you might want to stay away from facebook for sometime. Yes, the country has a lot of sick problems like poverty, power cuts, literacy rates and what not but none of them are akin to ones where some sick psychopath starts shooting people at random in a movie theatre. And for all the folks who were appalled at the lack of knowledge of “English” we Indians have, my friends, at least we try!! People like you who haven’t stepped out of your country don’t even know the existence of the rest of the world or the languages there.Stay here please …you don’t deserve to be anywhere else! Get your English right in the first place before correcting others. “My bad” is not “I am sorry, its my mistake” in any means !! And for the gentleman who mentioned that they lock down the tea and coffee machines at their work place, you might want to check again who you think the thief is. Indians really don’t like the shitty dark coffee that you drink and hate the bland tasting milkless tea. And coming from someone from a country which steals and robs nations for oil so that they can drive their cars around just for fun … it’s a shame! And hey guys….just FYI, if India has arranged marriages so does US. What you call dating sites here are a way we called “arranged” there !

    Yes, I was venting out my anger for being racially abused every other day. Nevertheless, I have made some wonderful American friends over the period of years working with them from India, who unlike some people in this forum are confident and smart people. I don’t like the job cuts and the suffering either – I know that- I am jobless and broke. I don’t even want to be in IT. But this is a competetive world guys, stop whining and start working on your skills. Companies here still prefer their own….I know that, I have been job hunting for months now. You just have to look !!

    • BY Automate says:

      Indian-IT-Worker: Wow — a lot of truth said. I am an older white out of work IT worker who use to tech interview H1-Bs for positions in a large IT consulting firm back in the ’90s. I have no racial or national bias poisoning my mind, I happened to stop by the office and found a whole floor dedicated to bringing in H1-Bs! That’s when I realized that profits were simply being made off of the differential between US and Indian workers. Most Americans are so easily convinced to go against their own self interest and mislead by non-economic issues including racism against Americans. The USA is doomed from becoming a great nation simply because of racism. Plus, the planet is under great stress from US energy policies and India’s failure to stop its population boom.

      In the meantime, HP PRODUCTS ARE OFF MY SHOPPING LIST!

      Hopefully you are out from under the H1-B situation. Good luck on your job search!

    • BY Indian-IT-worker says:

      You know what, I gladly would return and get a job and probably that’s what I am going to do. And by the way, I was not here in the first place to find a better future in IT. It was a bitter turn of luck which I have to endure for some more time and counting days. As for Indian cos you have named which “snatched” the jobs, go ask the company bosses what made these companies rise in the first place. You were a sourcing manager…you know the demand supply chain then don’t you ? There was a demand hence the supply ! I am not blaming any one here. And of course I don’t expect you to be sympathetic.It would be a shame if you were ! “WE” created ?? Ofcourse….you created. Why then…stop selling your stuff there and let’s see what happens next! You talk about corruption in India…lets get this straight, the bosses here decide to outsource so that they could make more money and increase their profit margin and you come talking of ethics and corruption of a different country ?? Well, I am getting out of here making sure I don’t visit this thread anymore. Hate me or my country men as much as you can but first hate your own people more than us for getting you here. We are merely trying to survive !!

    • BY twins.fan says:

      I am seeing many non-native IT workers in a similar situation to yours, and the situation of everyone else.

      The very fraud that benefited H1B visa recipients of yesteryear, are now coming back to bite those very recipients. Ex-H1B visa recipients are being replaced by new H1B visa recipients too!

      Indian workers, now many being citizens, are becoming unemployed and are unable to now find jobs. Finding a job is a blessing of which very few older workers enjoy, whether native or naturalized.

      Of course, the majority of H1B visa recipients are Indian. They are now awaking to the other side of the fraud, the nasty side of replacing highly skilled, well educated US STEM workers with cheap entry level workers from the third world. The experienced Indian workers are now finding themselves replaced too!

      The one time corporate benefactors are now spreading the lies about the ExH1B visa recipients too. Working for HP, IBM has rendered them unemployable too!

      Like the older US STEM worker, the H1B visa recipients believed the corporate lies too. Both groups of workers invested their youth learning a technology that would allow them to work for the corporate slime that will discard older workers whenever possible.

  57. BY Steve says:

    I will never recommend another HP product to any of my customers. They lost a good chunk of sales by being another bottom line company and not caring about their customers or who they destroy in the process

  58. BY Cicuta says:

    Meg Whitman at HP
    The biggest mistake HP has done… Non-engineers CEOs! HP always WAS a company lead by engineers and it became the best in quality till the mid-late 80s. Now, HP is surviving with the fame it built for quality which is gone now. The biggest customer HP had was Uncle Sam and Defense companies but now is fading away as better systems come to the market. EBay is for the sales people and that anyone can do even a car sales person; however, high technology is a different ball game. One of the worst alliances HP has done is Compaq PC computers and now Intel which is the wrong architecture for Enterprise computers. Now, China builds the fastest computers in the world and they do not use Intel architecture…is far too slow in spite the Gigahertz CPUs. The best computer HP ever built was the HP-9000 which hit the market using the HP-UNIX for the first time in 1986 and it sold very well in spite the stiff competition from other computer systems manufacturers. HP also built the best disk drive which could stand a 3 G force drop. What about the frequency counters and power supplies? All of the top notch equipment along with RF ICs and RAMs but all of that is gone now and HP is surviving only with the PC market. What I see now is HP moving, little by little, all of her working force to India and China, Taiwan, etc. and only sell PCs in the USA but that will be gone also…What a way to go down along with Meg Whitman.

  59. BY Ben Shaton says:

    At least Whitman was rightly rejected for the job of California’s Governor after spending $175 Million blanketing the state with her obnoxious nonsense!

  60. BY Paul C says:

    If its any consolation to anyone commenting here, H-P has been on a long downward spiral since the day they spun off their original business, i.e., the TEST EQUIPMENT. They were the first contacts I had with H-P when I bought Test Equipment for use on USAF, USN and USMC aircraft intermediate avionics shops that were being built back in the 1980s to support the then in use F/FB-111, the A-10, F-15 and F/A – 18 fighter aircraft.

    The T.E. part of the “old H-P” is now known as AGILENT TECHNOLOGIES. Isn’t it interesting that you don’t hear anything negative about them, but ever since H-P went into computers, bought COMPAQ and tried to compete with H-P, ORACLE and SAP in the services business, they’ve had their heads handed to them?

    Perhaps, if they want to survive, they need to get out of CA where the state and too many senior business executives of the company just don’t know how to compete.

  61. BY 'Merica! says:

    I’ll take the Pepsi challenge with any of the outsourced resources in Bangalore. I may get paid 3x more, but I’m still the better deal because I’m highly effective. In this country 10-40% of the workforce at any company are total slugs, which you can’t fire be cause of fear of litigation.

    • BY whatdoyouknowa says:

      It’s got nothing to do with you nor quality.

      It’s the American business model, which in the last (4) decades had evolved into a pyramid scheme. Cut costs, sacrifice quality, eliminate dividends where possible, so as to maximize total executive compensation.
      This began soon after the fall of the Soviet Union.
      The American Corporate office began the search for the closest thing to slave labor and found them in India and China.
      Apple corporation perfected the art of exploitation.
      Happy Lovely

      • BY rheffero says:

        So cut exec pay and all of a sudden we are going to be able to compete with a non union Toyota, or a factory in China that pays 88 cents and hour. How naive? Exec comp is usually bloated by stock awards, Gates made 300k a year but 50 billion in stock, same with Buffett. The numbers of resources in these developing countries will ALWAYS be higher, thus driving down their cost, so it will always look good to Meg, and Immedlt, Harley Davidson, Dell. IBM…35% come back in 5 years, those are also the facts. Those manufacturing jobs are not. The only way to stop this is protectionist strategy, which fails every time. End of the day, China is headed towards the same fiscal cliff, Russia is going to have an uprising in the next 50 years, India is getting to be expensive, the end of the US has not been completed yet, but it is in progress.

        • BY whatdoyouknowa says:

          You don’t get the big picture.

          Who were the key people who decided to send American jobs abroad ? Correct, the American born, raised, educated corporate executives.
          They send IT jobs to India in order to obtain Slave labor, never mind quality.
          India was back in the dark ages with regards to IT.
          Today, try to import a Cadillac to India, would you know the price tag for the car after import duty (tax) ?
          Correct about $185,000… yet they could import any shit into this country with hardly any import duty. Same applies to China, Korea, Vietnam, Mexico, etc.
          Soon after the decision is made to send jobs abroad, the US economy strays off into the wong side of economic recovery, and it takes too many years to recover. We keep making these wrong decisions year after year…. until the straw that broke the American Camel’s back,,,,
          Resulting in the American version of the Bolshevik revolution,,,, The Tsar of Russia imagined that he would be killed; Neither did Louie the XVI

          • BY rheffero says:

            So, do we give up..I am not sure who is more delusional the unions who think that their living wage works in the current global economy, or the executive who thinks outsourcing the middle class will increase their market share. At this point, the data in 2005 stated 14 million jobs at risk for outsourcing, of that about 30% are gone. HP, IBM, Dell. Microsoft, GE, Financial Services, have all taken taxpayer money and then outsourced about 2 million jobs to our world competitors. These were not fly by night CEO’s, these were the US icons. So, what is the answer, can the US become a protectionist country and still compete? We tried that during the great depression and it made things worse.

  62. BY Paul C says:

    In case anyone is interested (but also probably NOT surprised) on MSN Money today there was an article of the 11 WORST Companies to work for (here in the USA).

    H-P made that list. I knew no one would be surprised!

  63. BY Jack Daniels says:

    What the heck is going on here? Truly WOW…Out of this world… Unbelievable….Jackasses this is not 1960s anymore. You are living in a modern world where there are ample opportunities. I myself is an IT worker based in the US. I don’t know why people here keeps bitching about outsourcing and hiring American people, my company has been looking for over 200 people in the field of IT for over 3 years now (status doesn’t matter – Citizen/Non-Citizen) but they have not been able to find any. Not even 1 person to do the job well. ALL THAT MATTERS ARE YOUR SKILL SET. What exactly the f*** you can bring to the table. I have worked with a LOT of American workers and Indian workers. There are good and bad on both sides. There are dedicated folks on both ends. They are worthless folks on both sides as well. My Company pays $25 per hours just for a f***ing call center employee per hour. He is not bringing any business but just to support customer service and keeping our business “american” this is an over-head company has to pay. The AFFECT OF IT: We haven’t had any pay increases in almost 3 years even though YOY margins grew by over 40%. There are a lot of INDIAN folks who work 12-15 hours a day IN THE US at my very own office location just to make sure the company can run it business and we are able to make MONEY. They don’t get paid overtime. I am an American and I invest similar time at my work. But I would not hesitate to comment that majority of “american” people I have worked with are 9-5 people. If you have a f***ing IT problem at 4:45pm, you have to stay late. But sadly none of my colleagues do that. That’s not how you progress. There are huge number of jobs available in the field of IT everywhere. You just need be willing to look and move to the new place. No one is going to open a company in your home town and give you the job so you don’t have to move. I interview a lot of people and the reason they are “unemployed” is they prefer to stay in the our city and not move out. If you can’t move within country could you imagine about folks in the military? Stop bitching about all this and stay focused on your search and stay competitive. That’s all that is required to be employed and in-demand.

  64. BY Jimmy Lozano says:

    Is very simple… Non-Patriotic because:
    —-”” the ONLY consideration was COST! “”—-
    —-”” I resented being forced to do business with INDIAN companies based on the bottom line rather than on experience “”—-

    So… if you did 28yrs. in the military, get 3 purple hearts and couple of valor awards…
    Do YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT to sell all jobs that BELONGS TO THE REAL AMERICAN CITIZEN instead of the welfare and benefits of the families in USA…???
    If you thoughts and believes are the same like my question above… and…
    If the military persons who works in the government has the same thoughts and believes like you… then… NOW I KNOW how EASILY all these corporations like HP outsourced all Jobs that belongs to the real citizen of United State of America.
    I’m wondering… How give you all your purple hearts and couple of valor medals… the real citizen of USA…??? or the CEOs who sell the jobs to other countries causing the Unemployment and the economic crisis that we have right now in United State Of America…???

    • BY Paul C says:

      So tell me genius, what should I have done, losy my job by protesting corporate directions, directives and orders from my manaement?

      • BY Jeff Smith says:

        So back in WWII and other dark times in humanity’s past, many soldiers and public servants committed atrocities because they said; “I was just following orders.”

        Selling out your fellow American worker to further your career is cowardly. Remember what happened to Nazi sympathizers when the French, Italians, Dutch etc. got back control of things. I have a list of names that I would like to throw out there when we get to this point.. revenge.

        When and if it comes down to my job, my house, my family and my ability to provide for them, due to a “corporate big wig wanna be” selling his soul to further his/her career, you are beneath contempt.

        • BY Mark Feffer says:

          What Jeff and Jimmy are saying is utter BS. You’re saying every hiring manager, every HR person, every team lead, every manager in every department, should quit their jobs rather than implement management’s decision to outsource their workforce? And if they don’t they’re beneath contempt?

          So, they’re all supposed to quit their jobs — and probably never get another one. Lose their home. Walk away from their ability to provide for their children.

          I don’t know if you’re a manager or not. If you are, you’d do this? If you’re not, you’d quit your job if told to work with people in another country, or guest workers? Really?

          And comparing all this to WW II? Please. Tough an issue as this is, that comparison is silly, not to mention insulting, at least to me, whose family was directly impacted by that tragedy. I work with a veterans group and I’m sure that if you said that to them, they’d either curse you or stare at you in disbelief.

  65. BY Mark Feffer says:

    You shouldn’t accuse any one of being unpatriotic. Everyone has their opinion and has the right to argue them, whether people agree with them or not. Anyone who knows America knows that’s a cherished right. Calling them “non-patriotic” is just name-calling.

  66. BY It professional says:

    Instead of yelling at the people who are lucky to still have a job, why dont you put your money where your mouth is…..stop buying HP products. Yeh that will send a message, oh that’s right they’ll just lay off more US workers. By the way, only an idiot would actually call those still with a job at HP unpatriotic, they’re just trying to survive. Management isn’t going to change one bit because of one person “standing up” to management. So, again you’re just really naive, ignorant as would be someone who has never worked high enough up the corporate ladder to know what really happens.

    • BY twins.fan says:

      The decision NOT to purchase anything from HP will not be very difficult for me. Because HP has nothing to sell that I want. All they have now is overpriced TRASH!

      Is the process of replacing US STEM workers with workers from India going to change that? Ask IBM! IBM has already gone down that road. Does IBM sell anything that the US wants, whether corporate or individual? I really don’t think so as I watch IBM being kicked out of government contract after government contract all over the place.

      If I was going to buy anything from HP, I would have to go out of my way to do so. I certainly will not do that.

    • BY Jeff Anttila says:

      Microsoft made a similar transition years ago. Most of Microsoft’s deployed hardware is Dell.

      I don’t have any trouble with dell machines, with the exception of inexpensive capacitors which they sometimes use, overheat, and need to be replaced. Those components are typically sourced from China. I’ve had better luck with Japanese components.

  67. BY Mark Feffer says:

    For the record, I’m not the managing director of the Dice blogs, I’m the senior editor. That’s a small thing.

    As for your other statement, Jimmy: As I’ve said before, people are welcome to say what they want here. Agree with our stories, don’t agree, it doesn’t matter, you have the right to say it.

    But what I won’t allow is for anybody to constantly insult others, or to post any kind racist diatribe. I’ve found the people here to be very smart, and more than capable of making their points without resorting to either of those things.

    Fortunately, few people go down that road. To those who do, I think you’d be taken a lot more seriously if you stuck to your arguments and stayed away from the insults. But, hey, that’s just me.

  68. BY whatdoyouknowa says:

    There’s a fine balance, between the right & the left.
    Each one needs the other.
    Way back when the Soviet Union was strong, it was Us vs Them.
    There was a line in the sand, every one knew the rules of the game, keep everything here (jobs, etc.).
    When the Soviet Union fell apart, the corporate office looked to the East for these CHEAP laborers.
    That was escalated when American executives pressured the Government to repeal the Glass Stegal Act, and Clinton signed NAFTA.
    The American public didn’t care, as it had and still has Attention Deficit Disorder, being poor chess players, they couldn’t see things long term.
    If nothing is done now to curb or reverse OUTSOURCING, things will get WORSE, and may trigger events that will hopefully lead to the French Revolution.

    Conserve water, Drink wine

    • BY Paul C says:

      There is now a movement afoot to restore GLASS-STEGAL. The Chairman Emeritus of Citibank recently said publicly that the Big Banks SHOULD be broken up and that they should return to their prior SEPARATE roles of commercial banking and investment banking, but not under the same roof or parent banking companies.

  69. BY Michael Jay says:

    So according to HP; we are too expensive to hire ourselves. Even when most of the sales of HP product com from us? In the words of the Intergallactic Master “THAT, IS WHY WE FAIL”.

    • BY Aaron S says:

      “Even when most of the sales of HP product com from us?” come one now did you not read, “Some 65 percent of its revenue is generated in emerging markets,” which is not most of the revenue from us or like we want to think is US.

  70. BY Paul C says:

    The contract I recently completed as a Sourcing Manager for a large pharma company in NJ involved replacing IBM as the global database manager for the US locations as well as those outside for this Swiss company. The RFI/RFP, due diligence, vendor presentations and Q & A took almost 9 months and in the end, we were almost ready to select an AMERICAN company to do the outtasked work (managed by this company’s internal employees). At the 11th hour, this Swiss company replaced the American project manager with an H1B Indian Visa holder from their Vaccines Business in Cambridge, MA. This individual literally threw away all the work we did and unilaterally decided to award the “outasked” DB adminsitration to an Indian firm in Bangalore where the average hourly rate for ALL labor categories was $16.00 per hour.

    I was sickened by the obvious cost only based decision and because the new Indian project lead deliberately put the work into an Indian company he’d worked with before and probably had financial or family ties to. But I could not say anything because a) I was a contractor and b) I was so close to the end of my contract that even if I did, it wouldn’t have helped or made a difference.

    • BY Jeff Anttila says:

      Project Management Certification standards have obviously become relaxed over the past few years with many project management professionals who wrote and contributed to initial standards moving to new work.

      That stated however, I don’t think it’s wise to continually outsource to India, particularly because of lack of basic infrastructure.

      Just a month ago, CNN reported that some 600 million people were without electrical power. Due to lack of this basic infrastructure know-how, companies who outsource to other countries, and are accustom to 99.999% uptime may be in for a rude awakening.

      Also, a friend who worked on a military supply chain project said his project, which was offshored to India, had to be re-coded four times. The project was successful and only slightly more than using US resources… But now resources in India know how the US military supply chain works.

      Databases are an interesting concept. At Microsoft, I worked directly with original programmers of database software. When I finished my project early, the Executive asked how I was able to accomplish the work quickly. I said… Well, my neighbor, Bill Inmon, is the father of Datawarehousing… Which he is… And I reccomended he go to one of his conferences. My other friend from High School is a Director at Oracle too.

    • BY Jeff Anttila says:

      H1B Visa program probably needs review. In a contracting position, I learned that TATA consulting found a loophole, and H1B visa employees can work over 40-hours a week if they are employed by a foreign company.

      An American can’t compete against this in many states due to overtime and related labor laws.

      This means that H1B visa employees don’t necessarily intergrate within the culture, don’t see movies, do things outside of work. It’s not quite freedom, I suppose.

      At the end of the H1B programs, most people leave back to their home country with the knowledge and skills obtained, possibly to start new competition in other countries with those skills, and understanding of the labor markets.

      There’s a book, “Dragons at your Door” written about India and Chinese Labor Markets, and cost efficiencies they take advantage of.

      It seems like the slow bleeding of US knowledge and talent without an easy path to citizenship in place.

    • BY Jeff Anttila says:

      Also, you may desire to read my full followup comment below, but I agree.

      Project Management Certification standards have obviously become relaxed over the past few years with many project management professionals who wrote and contributed to initial standards moving to new work. Many original PMP folks have moved onto ANSI and ISO standardization of PM.

      That stated however, I don’t think it’s wise to continually outsource to India, particularly because of lack of basic infrastructure. India may do well to manage basic infrastructure needs like roads, pipelines, telecom, and power.

      Just a month ago, CNN reported that some 600 million people were without electrical power, or I think roughly twice the full citizenship of the US. This may be because of lack of basic infrastructure know-how. Companies who outsource to other countries, and are accustom to 99.999% uptime may be in for a rude awakening.. Heck, for a while half the country didn’t have power. It’s also not redundant.

      In addition to this, a highschool friend who worked on a military supply chain project said his project, which was offshored to India, had to be re-coded four times. The project was successful and only slightly more than using US resources… But now resources in India know how the US military supply chain works.

      Databases are an interesting concept. At Microsoft, I worked directly with original programmers of database software. When I finished my project early, the Executive asked how I was able to accomplish the work quickly. I said… Well, my neighbor, Bill Inmon, is the father of Datawarehousing… Which he is… And I reccomended he go to one of his conferences. My other friend from High School is a Director at Oracle too.

  71. BY Jeff Anttila says:

    he’s merely trying to play to the Finance Analysts on Wallstreet. She’s cutting costs, the best that she can, based on the current rules of the game.

    I personally don’t agree with it, but eventually, HP will likely become an India-based manufacturing company, started in a garage in Sunnyvale, California, originally by a few engineers who wanted to invent.

    Now, it’s changed, and just remember, the CEO makes the direction. I suppose that’s what HP wanted when they chose her based on previous success in creating online bidding wars at eBay, the first company she founded.

    That said however, quality can generally be lower if it swallows up competitors such as Compaq, reducing competition and innovation within its product lines.

    I remember that Steve Jobs, who recently bought the land the HP Campus is on, gave a speech at Cupertino City Council. In it, he said finding Bill Packard’s number was easy. All you had to do was look in the phonebook.

    Here’s that video (on YouTube):

    http://qr.net/SteveJobsBuysHP

  72. BY Not on H1 says:

    Please read this article and espcially the comments below. Apparently we might be getting a relief from H1B and L1 visa abuses by Indian bodyshop so called IT companies.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/software-services/Indian-IT-companies-TCS-Infosys-hit-by-denial-of-US-visas/articleshow/15809785.cms

    • BY Jeff Smith says:

      I will believe it when I see it. I believe the Senate sets the H1B limits, and they are all on Lobby’s payrolls. Even the Dems. Its hard to find any one these days in those “hollowed houses” that does not have the stain of Corporate green on their lips.

      I am sure its really no news to these guys, they just chose to “look the other way.”

      We need a new Political Party. People’s Labor Party, with middle class values, and the middle class worker as the dominant member.

      • BY whatdoyouknowa says:

        I think we need to outsource both the Senate & Congress.
        For the money we spend for the current Senate & Congress we can get at least 125000 to 15000 senators & Congressmen. They could work in (3) shifts, take up PC calls when not working on the usual business.

        IF that works out, we can then outsource the Presidency.

        Wait, my mistake, we already did with Obama.

        Happy Lovely

  73. BY Outsourced Sam says:

    Looks like greed isn’t just a ‘old white conservative thing’ is it?

    HAHAHA. Suckers.

  74. BY Outsourced Sam says:

    Your beloved (D) Senate does want to stop outsourcing. It wants to INSOURCE. Yep they want to add another 100,000 slaves and bring them here so they want keep the top brass up late because of time zone and cultural differences.

  75. BY daniel peterson says:

    Bill and Dave are doing somersaults.

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